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I understand the Taiwan argument, I don’t understand Ukraine, how does everyone joining NATO help Russia/China in any capacity? By that logic, they should attack Switzerland or the Cayman Islands and piss off most of the billionaires in the world who hide their assets there…
The purpose behind attacking Ukraine was to prevent them from joining NATO, and that kind of relied on a quick resolution to the war before other countries have a chance to join. The goal was to get in and get out with a treaty that formally recognizes Russia’s control over Crimea and promises to not join NATO.
That’s not what Putin said in the first week of March 2022, he said they were sending a special operation to protect ethnic Russians living in Ukraine and to de-nazify Ukraine. Those were his words. Not Putin’s fault the FSB couldn’t find any Nazis for the livestreams, right? Must be tough to be him, when his own words were streamed around the world and can’t be erased. Is bombing maternity hospitals part of his strategy to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO? Strangely, crushing women and children to death using glide bomb attacks on apartment buildings has not been persuasive.
I don’t really believe anything Putin says, I believe what he does. I think “protecting ethnic Russians” was an excuse to achieve his main goal, which was to keep Ukraine from joining NATO, and to resolve the dispute around Crimea.
I think he wanted a quick war, but Ukraine didn’t play ball and now he needs to save face to stay in power. So he desperately needs a win here, so he’s pivoting to Russian nationalism to stay in power because it’s becoming pretty clear that this war is going to drag on.
I’m saying that what Putin DOES is send resources to eradicate Ukraine as a nation. You’re right that the excuses keep changing. It was never really about preventing NATO membership for him. It’s about seizing and destroying.
the defenestration is incredibly relevant.
Because nato and the UN are the first sign internationally cooperation, but people want to shit on it because they don’t have a good argument of why the structure doesn’t work, so instead of creating a good argument about the current structure, they just shit on it and say “NATO BAD”.
There is a reason why it is obvious to some people why NATO and the UN are bad and not to others. There are obvious good reasons to hate those organizations if you are the kind of person or nation who wants to do horrible things to other people or nations for your own benefit.
I’m not saying any of those people are wrong or right. What I’m saying is is people put forth the energy to criticize those organizations and countries involved without coming up with solutions to improve said organizations. Instead people just say that those orgs are evil or bad. Both organizations are international coops, so how is that a bad thing? It shows a great chance, but instead of trying to find solutions, they want to chastise it.
So with that being said, what would be your solution to improve NATO and the UN?
Legit multipolarization?
NATO, in particular, is highly coupled to the American/anti-Russian agenda. How much chance did Europe get to discuss the pros and cons of bankrolling a long-term conflict in Ukraine vs getting railroaded into it with the insinuations of being the next Chamberlain?
Even Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin don’t wake up every morning asking “how can I be evil today?” They may have a different agenda than the West, but it still comes from a place of caring for their country, legacy, and position. These are not wholesale foreign concepts. They can be understood and worked with. But I suspect the sort of organizations that would get the best out of them would require certain countries to acknowledge their place among equals and be willing to comptomise their sphere of influence.
pfft. europes support of ukraine is way outsideo of just nato obligations. This is stuff happening right off their borders.
Then do something about the problem! For fuck’s sake. If you see a problem and choose not to do anything about the problem beside complain about the problem, then you’re part of the problem.
