There’s a handful of very vocal posters on here that are just cooked. They think that anyone fighting the US is automatically the good guy, and life just isn’t that simple.
They think that anyone fighting the US is automatically the good guy, and life just isn’t that simple.
Actually, it kinda is. For the same reason the US, the UK, and the USSR were all allies during WWII, and were all “the good guys” in that conflict, despite having drastically different ideologies. Because the other side was committing a major genocide, and had to be stopped above all else.
The genocide must be stopped, and neither US political party is willing to offer us a chance to vote against it. Therefore, it can only be stopped through military force, and we don’t really have the luxury of waiting for some faction to suddenly emerge out of thin air that has the strength to fight and win while also being perfectly aligned ideologically. The very least we can do is offer our verbal support to the anti-genocide side, regardless of their reasons.
But if I’m wrong, then enlighten me. How exactly do you envision stopping the genocide?
The allies fought together in WWII because the axis attacked them. The genocide not only had nothing to do with it, war decisions were explicitly made to leave intact the concentration camp system (for example not bombing railroads that took people to the camps) because any whiff of supporting Jews would have damaged political support for the war. The people in the camps were only freed at the very end of the war.
The allies were the same countries that crippled Germany’s economy after WWI, leaving its society vulnerable to the demagogery of Hitler. I don’t believe they can be black-and-white described as “the good guys”.
Yeah, that’s the point. Many of the countries who were part of the Allies were doing it for their own interests, as world-dominating colonial powers. But whatever their motivations, they’re still correctly regarded as “the good guys” because the other side was the fucking Nazis. Likewise, Ansar Allah and similar groups may have their own motivations, their own problems, their own sins, but the other side is committing genocide.
And the reason that literally every single conflict from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq and so on is justified by comparing it to WWII is that virtually everyone was and is on the same page about it, for different reasons. Yeah the leadership was motivated more by maintaining power, but that doesn’t mean that everyone fighting at the time or that everyone looking back on it supported/supports the Allies on the same motivation.
Once Israel and the US have been defeated and the genocide has stopped, then sure, let’s look at Ansar Allah’s position on gay rights or whatever. Until then they are some of the only ones doing anything to keep Israel in check, and we desperately need someone to do that, because again, the genocide must stop.
You didn’t answer the question. The genocide must stop, how do you envision stopping it? If you denounce every actual, practical solution without offering any other option, then how is your position meaningfully different from just outright supporting it?
That same line about how “they’d be even worse than us if they ever got power,” has been used by virtually every colonialist project on earth. It’s wild to watch an old school, 1800’s style colonial project playing out in 2025 and to see all the same rhetoric being used, it’s like getting in a time machine.
Christ. Well then thank god you weren’t president back then or we’d all be speaking German, and we wouldn’t be discussing Israel because all the Jews would be dead.
What the hell is wrong with liberals? Do you just enjoy losing?
I asked for an answer, not Hasbara propaganda and genocide apologia.
Every claim Israel makes about Palestine is lies and projection. It’s the IDF that uses human shields, not Hamas. It’s the IDF that levels cities and shells hospitals, including those run by the UN. The IDF is a terrorist organization.
Yes, the “war” would stop if Hamas surrendered, because then it would become even more of a one-sided slaughter, although the killing wouldn’t even end when every Palestinian was dead because Israel also goes Lebensraum on neighbors like Syria and Lebanon. Israel is a blatantly expansionist apartheid state and the only way lasting peace will be achieved is when the system of apartheid is ended and Palestinians are given full and equal rights and the colonizer ethnostate goes the way of similar states like apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.
From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.
In the mean time, the terrorist rogue state of Israel cannot be reasoned with but can potentially be kept in check through force, the only language it understands.
What’s strange about it? “The poor should be fed, but I oppose every practical solution to feeding them” is effectively the same as saying “The poor should not be fed.” The only difference is rhetorical. Likewise, “I don’t support the genocide, but I oppose every practical solution to ending it,” is effectively the same as saying, “I support the genocide.”
I guess it’s strange if you think words and rhetoric matter more than physical reality.
Except my solution is not to exterminate Israel. Fighting genocide by supporting a different group of genocidal maniacs is lunacy. Hamas is bad. Israel is bad. I can’t even say who is worse, morally. Israel just happens to have greater capacity for inflicting their evil right now.
you describe a decent chunk of the usa and its leaders if you just change “education” to “abortion” (although that’s probably not far either), so it’s kind of a not good guy doing a good thing vs a not good guy fighting the not good guy for the bad guy
Child marriage is still legal in 38 states, you people kidnap students for having an opinion.
Your rapist president is dismantling your department of education and slavery is still legal as per your constitution.
You guys have killed millions and destroyed dozens of countries in the span of 50 years for economic gains, you have torture camps and trans aren’t even recognized anymore.
stop with all this righteousness… maybe if the US stopped meddling in other countries things would change.
The US would still have chattel slavery if the slaves never resisted their chains. Women would still be the property of their husbands and not be allowed to vote or work if they did not fight for their rights. There is nothing about western “values” that made these things happen, they were not granted upon us by our holy and just rulers or even decided on by the masses in a vacuum. They were hard fought through decades of collective struggle and civil war.
It would be a lot easier for the people of Yemen to do the same if they were allowed to experience the same peace as is experienced in the west, and their efforts weren’t constantly thwarted by imperialist powers.
They have not been operating with honesty for some ships but as someone else pointed out, the majority had ties to the US and Israel. They’ve also been very clear about why they do this. I’m not saying they are admirable, but they are not that wrong.
I don’t think it’s bad to admit that they are generally doing something good while also committing bad mistakes.
JD Vance was just quoted saying 90% of the traffic was headed to Europe. I’m sure he’s exaggerating as much as you. Not too long ago the United States had good sounds intelligence so…. Idk not my business anyway. Don’t fuck with civilian vessels. Hit real military targets and get hit back with military assets. All I see is a bunch of fucking terrorist and terrorist supporters to be honest.
I can see why you think I might be exaggerating but at some point I checked the wikipedia page listing Houthi attacks on ships and spent a good amount of time checking each one more carefully.
There’s a handful of very vocal posters on here that are just cooked. They think that anyone fighting the US is automatically the good guy, and life just isn’t that simple.
Actually, it kinda is. For the same reason the US, the UK, and the USSR were all allies during WWII, and were all “the good guys” in that conflict, despite having drastically different ideologies. Because the other side was committing a major genocide, and had to be stopped above all else.
The genocide must be stopped, and neither US political party is willing to offer us a chance to vote against it. Therefore, it can only be stopped through military force, and we don’t really have the luxury of waiting for some faction to suddenly emerge out of thin air that has the strength to fight and win while also being perfectly aligned ideologically. The very least we can do is offer our verbal support to the anti-genocide side, regardless of their reasons.
But if I’m wrong, then enlighten me. How exactly do you envision stopping the genocide?
The allies fought together in WWII because the axis attacked them. The genocide not only had nothing to do with it, war decisions were explicitly made to leave intact the concentration camp system (for example not bombing railroads that took people to the camps) because any whiff of supporting Jews would have damaged political support for the war. The people in the camps were only freed at the very end of the war.
The allies were the same countries that crippled Germany’s economy after WWI, leaving its society vulnerable to the demagogery of Hitler. I don’t believe they can be black-and-white described as “the good guys”.
Yeah, that’s the point. Many of the countries who were part of the Allies were doing it for their own interests, as world-dominating colonial powers. But whatever their motivations, they’re still correctly regarded as “the good guys” because the other side was the fucking Nazis. Likewise, Ansar Allah and similar groups may have their own motivations, their own problems, their own sins, but the other side is committing genocide.
And the reason that literally every single conflict from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq and so on is justified by comparing it to WWII is that virtually everyone was and is on the same page about it, for different reasons. Yeah the leadership was motivated more by maintaining power, but that doesn’t mean that everyone fighting at the time or that everyone looking back on it supported/supports the Allies on the same motivation.
Once Israel and the US have been defeated and the genocide has stopped, then sure, let’s look at Ansar Allah’s position on gay rights or whatever. Until then they are some of the only ones doing anything to keep Israel in check, and we desperately need someone to do that, because again, the genocide must stop.
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You didn’t answer the question. The genocide must stop, how do you envision stopping it? If you denounce every actual, practical solution without offering any other option, then how is your position meaningfully different from just outright supporting it?
That same line about how “they’d be even worse than us if they ever got power,” has been used by virtually every colonialist project on earth. It’s wild to watch an old school, 1800’s style colonial project playing out in 2025 and to see all the same rhetoric being used, it’s like getting in a time machine.
I don’t have an answer. I just know supporting Islamists is not the answer.
You in 1940: “I don’t know how we can stop the Nazis, I just know supporting Stalinists is not the answer.”
I mean…yeah. Those fuckers were as bad as the Nazis. Fuck Stalin, he’s a genocidal monster too, he just happened to be on the winning side.
Christ. Well then thank god you weren’t president back then or we’d all be speaking German, and we wouldn’t be discussing Israel because all the Jews would be dead.
What the hell is wrong with liberals? Do you just enjoy losing?
There it is. Tankie moment.
We don’t owe you an answer to that question.
Yeah, you kinda fucking do, actually, unless you’re fine with the genocide continuing.
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I asked for an answer, not Hasbara propaganda and genocide apologia.
Every claim Israel makes about Palestine is lies and projection. It’s the IDF that uses human shields, not Hamas. It’s the IDF that levels cities and shells hospitals, including those run by the UN. The IDF is a terrorist organization.
Yes, the “war” would stop if Hamas surrendered, because then it would become even more of a one-sided slaughter, although the killing wouldn’t even end when every Palestinian was dead because Israel also goes Lebensraum on neighbors like Syria and Lebanon. Israel is a blatantly expansionist apartheid state and the only way lasting peace will be achieved is when the system of apartheid is ended and Palestinians are given full and equal rights and the colonizer ethnostate goes the way of similar states like apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.
From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.
In the mean time, the terrorist rogue state of Israel cannot be reasoned with but can potentially be kept in check through force, the only language it understands.
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That is a very strange line of reasoning.
What’s strange about it? “The poor should be fed, but I oppose every practical solution to feeding them” is effectively the same as saying “The poor should not be fed.” The only difference is rhetorical. Likewise, “I don’t support the genocide, but I oppose every practical solution to ending it,” is effectively the same as saying, “I support the genocide.”
I guess it’s strange if you think words and rhetoric matter more than physical reality.
And you consider killing sailors who may not even know their ship is Israeli owned is a “practical solution”?
Exactly what nazis would say if asked about why they tried to exterminate the jews.
Good god you’re broken beyond repair.
Except my solution is not to exterminate Israel. Fighting genocide by supporting a different group of genocidal maniacs is lunacy. Hamas is bad. Israel is bad. I can’t even say who is worse, morally. Israel just happens to have greater capacity for inflicting their evil right now.
Sometimes, there are no good guys.
wow you are a nazi
“Everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi” is not only a dumb argument, it’s a boring argument.
til fighting against a genocide doesn’t make someone a good guy
we have to be respectful i guess
If you still believe in slavery, treating women as property and making it illegal for them to have an education etc, then you’re not the good guy.
Awful people do occasionally end up on the right side of an issue.
you describe a decent chunk of the usa and its leaders if you just change “education” to “abortion” (although that’s probably not far either), so it’s kind of a not good guy doing a good thing vs a not good guy fighting the not good guy for the bad guy
Child marriage is still legal in 38 states, you people kidnap students for having an opinion.
Your rapist president is dismantling your department of education and slavery is still legal as per your constitution.
You guys have killed millions and destroyed dozens of countries in the span of 50 years for economic gains, you have torture camps and trans aren’t even recognized anymore.
stop with all this righteousness… maybe if the US stopped meddling in other countries things would change.
You do realise I’m not American, right?
Like I care, my statement still stand and I pity yours.
The US would still have chattel slavery if the slaves never resisted their chains. Women would still be the property of their husbands and not be allowed to vote or work if they did not fight for their rights. There is nothing about western “values” that made these things happen, they were not granted upon us by our holy and just rulers or even decided on by the masses in a vacuum. They were hard fought through decades of collective struggle and civil war.
It would be a lot easier for the people of Yemen to do the same if they were allowed to experience the same peace as is experienced in the west, and their efforts weren’t constantly thwarted by imperialist powers.
They should probably stop fucking with our boats then.
The west has had their hands in Yemen for much longer than the houthis have been firing on ships bound for Israel.
degeneracy in plain sight.
They are attacking Norwegian boats. The majority of the boats they are attacking aren’t even from the USA or going to the USA…
Also false. The majority of boats when the US blockade was active had direct ties to the countries on the blockade list.
Notable example True Confidence was owned by US Oaktree Capital until it was sold right before passing through the Red Sea. https://www.ft.com/content/7968438c-ec7c-424d-aaed-42d99e2a51a7
They have not been operating with honesty for some ships but as someone else pointed out, the majority had ties to the US and Israel. They’ve also been very clear about why they do this. I’m not saying they are admirable, but they are not that wrong.
I don’t think it’s bad to admit that they are generally doing something good while also committing bad mistakes.
JD Vance was just quoted saying 90% of the traffic was headed to Europe. I’m sure he’s exaggerating as much as you. Not too long ago the United States had good sounds intelligence so…. Idk not my business anyway. Don’t fuck with civilian vessels. Hit real military targets and get hit back with military assets. All I see is a bunch of fucking terrorist and terrorist supporters to be honest.
I can see why you think I might be exaggerating but at some point I checked the wikipedia page listing Houthi attacks on ships and spent a good amount of time checking each one more carefully.