If there honestly are comparisons of contracts of Finnish companies and Chinese companies for outsourced manufacturing then I’m just not seeing it. What source(s) have it?
Sadly seems like the video is gone now, since I last watched it. Nevertheless, the other sources offer more than enough evidence to the entirely different character of Western Aid vs Chinese Aid. The book Super-Imperialism is also useful for understanding how Western countries are Imperialist, though it says little about China as the focus is the US, and to a lesser extent, the EU.
The short summary is that Western Loans require participating countries to give up sovereignty over their national resources and industry through directed clauses in loans, increasing dependence on Western Loans and underdevelopment in the long run. Chinese loans do not come with such directed clauses, and with Chinese involvement comes dramatic infrastructural improvements, generally increasing autonomy.
When you boil it down to “they both trade,” you equalize very different investment practices and erase the results.
It seems you’re talking about “Western countries” as a unit and not specifically about Finland, which was the topic of the discussion. It would be a lot more fruitful to directly compare the two when the discussion is about the two.
There aren’t going to be many sources in general specifically comparing Finland to China. I included sources in the beginning about the role the Nordics play in Western Imperialism. It’s important to understand that the Western countries all are generally a part of the same Imperialist organization, spearheaded by the US, supported by its hundreds of millitary bases worldwide and unilateral control of institutions like the IMF.
Finland in particular is not the mastermind behind Western Imperialism, but it gladly accepts the presense of it and enjoys the spoils, a portion of which it uses to bribe its Proletariat against revolution with good safety nets and social services.
All of the backing for this is in the sources I have provided.
A comparison doesn’t necessarily need sources comparing the two but sources about what sort of contracts and deals companies from both countries have made. Without that you can’t really compare the two tbh.
It’s important to understand that the Western countries all are generally a part of the same Imperialist organization, spearheaded by the US, supported by its hundreds of millitary bases worldwide and unilateral control of institutions like the IMF.
China is member of the IMF too. I feel like China might have a bit more say over IMF than Finland does tbh.
Finland in particular is not the mastermind behind Western Imperialism, but it gladly accepts the presense of it and enjoys the spoils, a portion of which it uses to bribe its Proletariat against revolution with good safety nets and social services.
So are we guilty from benefiting of it even if you can’t really point to something we are actually doing that’s worse than what China is doing? I was hoping to hear from some actual practises and concrete actions from both painting Finland in bad light but it sounds more like guilt by association situation.
I’ve already provided sources you have freely ignored, I have pointed to them and provided summaries from myself and in other sources. I am aware that China is in the IMF, and I offered sources on how its fundamentally different, and explained why that’s the case, through showing the different economic goals needed to best support each economy.
Moreover, my point isn’t that Finland has a larger impact individually than China, but that the impact Finland has is negative and extractionist while China’s is positive.
If you want to do your own research and find loan specifics, which are often discrete, compile them all into a large dataset, and compare and contrast each unique clause and condition, be my guest. I have offered more than enough sources going over the how and why.
The thing is, even if I found exactly what you wanted, you still would invent a reason not to read through it just like you have with the other sources (minis the Yanis one, which I will admit not knowing the video was removed).
If your sources have specifically talked about Finland then I’ve managed to miss those parts. It seems more general talk about “the West” and that’s not very helpful.
the impact Finland has is negative and extractionist while China’s is positive.
I was hoping something directly showing this.
The thing is, even if I found exactly what you wanted, you still would invent a reason not to read through it
You could quote it here and then link to it. That’s usually what I do.
E: Wow this reached “max comment depth”. All in all, I don’t think there ever was anything directly about Finland, just “Western countries” this or that. Western countries have done bad things, Finland is a Western country, so Finland bad. It seems all very simplistic.
If there honestly are comparisons of contracts of Finnish companies and Chinese companies for outsourced manufacturing then I’m just not seeing it. What source(s) have it?
Yanis talks about some of the differences, for the final time, check out the sources.
You mean this source?
Sadly seems like the video is gone now, since I last watched it. Nevertheless, the other sources offer more than enough evidence to the entirely different character of Western Aid vs Chinese Aid. The book Super-Imperialism is also useful for understanding how Western countries are Imperialist, though it says little about China as the focus is the US, and to a lesser extent, the EU.
The short summary is that Western Loans require participating countries to give up sovereignty over their national resources and industry through directed clauses in loans, increasing dependence on Western Loans and underdevelopment in the long run. Chinese loans do not come with such directed clauses, and with Chinese involvement comes dramatic infrastructural improvements, generally increasing autonomy.
When you boil it down to “they both trade,” you equalize very different investment practices and erase the results.
It seems you’re talking about “Western countries” as a unit and not specifically about Finland, which was the topic of the discussion. It would be a lot more fruitful to directly compare the two when the discussion is about the two.
There aren’t going to be many sources in general specifically comparing Finland to China. I included sources in the beginning about the role the Nordics play in Western Imperialism. It’s important to understand that the Western countries all are generally a part of the same Imperialist organization, spearheaded by the US, supported by its hundreds of millitary bases worldwide and unilateral control of institutions like the IMF.
Finland in particular is not the mastermind behind Western Imperialism, but it gladly accepts the presense of it and enjoys the spoils, a portion of which it uses to bribe its Proletariat against revolution with good safety nets and social services.
All of the backing for this is in the sources I have provided.
A comparison doesn’t necessarily need sources comparing the two but sources about what sort of contracts and deals companies from both countries have made. Without that you can’t really compare the two tbh.
China is member of the IMF too. I feel like China might have a bit more say over IMF than Finland does tbh.
So are we guilty from benefiting of it even if you can’t really point to something we are actually doing that’s worse than what China is doing? I was hoping to hear from some actual practises and concrete actions from both painting Finland in bad light but it sounds more like guilt by association situation.
I’ve already provided sources you have freely ignored, I have pointed to them and provided summaries from myself and in other sources. I am aware that China is in the IMF, and I offered sources on how its fundamentally different, and explained why that’s the case, through showing the different economic goals needed to best support each economy.
Moreover, my point isn’t that Finland has a larger impact individually than China, but that the impact Finland has is negative and extractionist while China’s is positive.
If you want to do your own research and find loan specifics, which are often discrete, compile them all into a large dataset, and compare and contrast each unique clause and condition, be my guest. I have offered more than enough sources going over the how and why.
The thing is, even if I found exactly what you wanted, you still would invent a reason not to read through it just like you have with the other sources (minis the Yanis one, which I will admit not knowing the video was removed).
If your sources have specifically talked about Finland then I’ve managed to miss those parts. It seems more general talk about “the West” and that’s not very helpful.
I was hoping something directly showing this.
You could quote it here and then link to it. That’s usually what I do.
E: Wow this reached “max comment depth”. All in all, I don’t think there ever was anything directly about Finland, just “Western countries” this or that. Western countries have done bad things, Finland is a Western country, so Finland bad. It seems all very simplistic.