Summary
Elon Musk livestreamed a conversation with Alice Weidel, co-leader of Germany’s far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party, on his platform X, endorsing her and urging support for the AfD ahead of Germany’s February 23 election.
The livestream, which drew over 200,000 viewers, raised concerns across Europe about Musk’s influence in foreign politics.
AfD, under observation for extremism, has gained popularity amid discontent with Chancellor Scholz’s government.
Musk’s promotion of Weidel and controversial remarks on other European issues are being monitored for violations of the EU’s Digital Services Act.
IF(!) people were voting AfD while acknowledging that it will result in less money, general quality of life etc. for them: fair enough. If they made an informed decision to live a shittier life by voting against immigration because that’s their priority: all right (he he). But we both know that this is not the case. They fall for the dumb and blatant lies of the populists, telling them they will have more money, better social security, better infrastructure, a better life in general.
No. This is the fundamental of democracy, it’s weakness we have to bear with (but only because all the other options are worse). Despite all the bullshit (and there is a lot of bullshit) democracy has to rest on the fact that a population of adults can make a decision. That en masse their bullshit detectors work good enough. Else we become anti democratic ourselves and start favouring a vanguard of the insightful, educated, tasteful, moral, high thinkers “such as ourselves!” that get to patronise everyone else and disregard their opinions.
A lot of people thoroughly dislike conservative Islam. Both as a concept and from firsthand experience. There are other things wrong with the country too. But acting like people have no right to want there to be greater discernment at the border, and in fact call them churlish and mentally deficient for expressing anything of the kind, is what leaves them (and the are many of them) disconnected from the political process, frustrated, and open to the rhetoric of more extreme ideologues.
I myself dislike conservative Islam, same as all religions and ideologies that want to govern other peoples private lives. So fair enough. I’m not acting like people have no right to worry about immigration as it is, those are words that you putting in my mouth. But there has to be a difference between worrying about who comes to this country and calls to expell every brown person from Germany.
In the world of today, don’t you worry about democracy, when you look at how easy it has become to influence people based on the vast amount of data collected on every single person, by companies headed by people like Elon Musk? Are you not afraid of the accuracy of algorithms, that can form and modify the opinion of people without them noticing? Are the bullshit detectors really that good? Do you think most people have an accurate idea of what huge amounts of information they generate just by browsing the web and using a smartphone? I think the goal should be to help more people to make informed decisions, as free of external influences as possible. If you think that’s patronizing and that we should let things just run their course, I’m pretty sure you’d have to also accept the possibility of the end of democracy in a not too distant future.
apologies that wasn’t my intention
who actually is “calling for the explusion of every brown person in germany?” isn’t casually referring to this whole block of complex views in such an offhand way part of the problem? can people not express a desire for some who have entered the country with repugnant views to now leave without this being taken as a pogrom against all of a certain ethnicity? i don’t think this is what you are saying. i’m just pointing out how easy it is to generalise and mask views that might be different to our own liberal laissaz faire ones but are not in themselves that extreme.
i do. but it survived when the country was dominated by people listening to the pulpit every sunday. and it survived when everyone decided to dispense with “christian” morality at all in the 60’s and 70’s. it survived when literacy was below 50% in the early 20th century. and it survived when your only news from a handful of paper broadsheets and radio stations controlled by press barons. the problems we have now are definitely problems but they are not entirely new, just a different kind.
there have always been ideologues and fascists. what has played into their hands is refusing to allow very common and very popular concerns to a part of moderate political discussion. when a good proportion of immigrant muslims will express a desire for homosexuality to be illegal* and also express a willingness to stay silent when others support terrorism* then wanting their to be some discerement at the border is surely something that should be discussed. instead we fret over the kneejerk reactions of do-gooders who cry racism. which leaves the problem unsolved and the only people talking about it the exaggeraters and fantasists of the far right.
* https://www.channel4.com/press/news/c4-survey-and-documentary-reveals-what-british-muslims-really-think (UK based)
I’m sorry, but are you serious? That is quite literally what the AfD does! https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67948861.amp
“Much discussion allegedly focused on so-called “remigration” - the removal of people with non-German ethnic backgrounds, even if they are citizens of Germany.”
Do you not see how this is a far cry from a civil discussion about who enters the country and pretty fucking close to a pogrom? They want people born here, people with German citizenship out of the country because of their ethnicity. And it’s not like this is secret information. People know about it when they vote for AfD. Three regional AfD chapters in the states of Thuringia, Saxony, and Saxony-Anhalt have already been reclassified as proven right-wing extremist by the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution (BfV).
I would also argue that democracy in Germany did indeed not survive the first half of the 20th century, in part due to populism and media propaganda.
I can see your problems with Islam. But feel free to ask the majority of AfD-Voters what they think of homosexuals and start to wonder they wouldn’t match with the views of Grey Wolfs just fine…
I was asking quite specifically “who” because it is not an official policy of the AfD. There are certainly large racist elements in AfD but I do not believe all of their voters are frothing at the mouth irrational xenophobes. The voting public are generally less ideologically committed than the parties they end up voting for (again, notwithstanding that there are certianly racists among them). And this is the tragedy of the current discourse; one cannot currently question the wisdom of allowing conservative islam populations into the country without being accused of being “extreme” and of being far more to the right than one actually is. The result is that moderate politicians find the discussion unsafe and have deserted the popluation who are, in no small measure, concerned about the unchecked immigration of those who favour violence as a response to criticism of the prophet muhammad and would in large part remain silent if an associate expressed the desire to engage in terrorism* (The research in this area is UK based but I don’t think it’s unfair to consider muslim immigrants to the UK and Germany as being largely similar)
The shunning of any talk of “cultural superiority” in polite, liberal, university educated society is what results in the only people talking about it being the far right, and then in exaggerated, fantastical terms. It is trivial for them to pull a veneer of respectability over their possible true intentions (as the AfD are no doubt doing), the result of which is they win votes. And a country that could have had more moderate solutions ends up sliding into insanity.
All because there is an overreaction any time someone suggests that immigration should be controlled on the basis of a persons views or religion or that ones ongoing immigrant status should be conditional on one’s behaviour or assocation. Instead a country ends up with little control in this area and the rise of extreme parties that begin to suggest the only solution is to deport generations of migrants…
Banning such parties will not change anything. Starting to talk in moderate terms about how immigration might be far slower and more discriminating is the only thing that will rob the far right extreme parties of their saviour narrative.
* https://www.channel4.com/press/news/c4-survey-and-documentary-reveals-what-british-muslims-really-think