I mean, that’s a really low bar. I like Pete, and I would certainly vote for him instead of just about anyone in any position of government. But I do think our standards have been lowered to the point where “not a nazi shitbag” is going to put him in the upper echelon.
But I do think our standards have been lowered to the point where “not a nazi shitbag” is going to put him in the upper echelon.
I agree, but in many places lesser evil is the best we can do. I think if one lives in a red state then we need to vote as much as we can to minimize harm. If we live in a blue state we need to vote for the most progressive dem in primaries to start the shift away from corporate dems. In pretty much every election from the last 30 years non voting has been the biggest voter block.
Protesting is important too, but we need to follow up the energy and vote as well. Otherwise we are saying that we care a lot about something, but not enough to go all the way with our complaint.
So was Obama, who led us directly to Trump. At some point, Democrats have to actually stand for something more than mere competence and being the lesser evil.
Let’s just put our heads in the sand and pretend that Democrats didn’t lose the entire fucking country. They did everything right, it’s just dumb luck.
It’s not even just the federal government. Not only did Obama lose the House and the Senate, he also lost the Democrats over a thousand statewide seats. At some point there has to be a come to Jesus moment. If things haven’t gotten bad enough now, what will it take?
Lolwut. You’re blaming Obama for what, being a black guy that made fun of Trump at a dinner? Feel free to blame the DNC or Biden for dropping out too late, or whatever. But Obama?
I don’t give a shit about Obama being black. We elected a black president so apparently we were ready for it, and that’s great. I blame Obama for selling us out to Wall Street on multiple occasions. I blame him for perfecting Clinton’s triangulation politics that replaces substance with flowery rhetoric. I blame Obama for redirecting funds traditionally used for congressional races to his own campaign chests, then blaming the Republican Congress when he couldn’t get anything done. Should I go on?
Really nothing. It has to do with fascism. Neoliberalism is losing to it all around the globe. Only Brazil and Mexico are bucking the trend, and they elected leftists.
I might be reaching, but I don’t think that was the point of their comment. A problem with the democratic party is that they’re such a big tent party that it’s hard to say what their platform and what their strategy is. They seem to only be successful when they have someone like a Bill Clinton or a Barack Obama. Someone that oozes charisma and can present a unified vision. The problem is, that never becomes the party’s vision.
You act like biden had no policy but stood on many issues. Even if we just look at the policy he passed he stood for a lot. If we expand to the policy he tried to pass he stood for even more.
He had real solutions to the problems, they were boring and bureaucratic but thats whats required. Putting a freeze on rent isnt going to fix house prices or cost of living. Only investment will fix that.
Americans have had 50 years of “progress” where all the great things Democrats say they do don’t seem to help. Technocratic improvements and even material improvements don’t even register with people anymore. Voters (regardless of what they might say) want transformative change. Forgiving some student loans is good, but free college is transformative.
Republicans offer transformative change. In the absence of anything on offer from the Democrats, the culture moves right. 50 years later and here we are.
If this is all you took from Biden’s legislatively successful presidency, you’re part of the problem in America. The guy was progressive as fuck compared to most presidents.
All of politics is a compromise. You can’t actually accomplish anything if you have a dogmatic approach to it. That’s why Sanders, who I very nearly wholeheartedly support, is so rarely able to actually get anything done. And bless him for it!, he’s the moral compass we need! But to get things done, politicians need to make deals, sometimes with shitty people.
I don’t like everything that Buttigieg represents. But I like him a lot more than Newsom, who throws trans people under the buss without provocation. I certainly like him more than Joe Walsh, the ‘former’ (?) Tea Party conservative that now claims to be a Democrat.
There’s a difference between reasonable compromise and compromising with fascists who want to kill people. You cant deal with or compromise with them, especially since they will never work to compromise with you when they’re in power. And atleast so far it feels like the current democratic party tried to move right during the election to compromise with these people rather then standing firm on certain principles like protecting migrants. People like Bernie dont win because the corporate interests and the establishment of the party will throw everything against them to stop them from winning. There’s a reason one of the most popular things in America is a progressive ballot measures, even in red states.
You kind of have to, since government relies on the consent of the governed. When enough of them will no longer consent to being governed, your government will fail. But if you really want to address that problem, you look at the reasons why people turn to fascism; it’s not something that happens in a vacuum.
In this case, the dems are handling it badly; they’re trying to move to the right in order to give the fascists the things that they say they want. But what they say they want isn’t really the root issue, which means that dems can never go far enough right to win their vote.
Yeah I generally agree with you, Dems aren’t doing good at providing an alternative and are actively fighting against voices in the party who are offering an alternative. But at the same time you can’t let the fascists accomplish their agenda, you have to use the same tactics they use against the Dems when they’re in power. No compromising and obstructing on every thing you can to stop them from being able to implement what they want. Doing that while offering a progressive populist vision would be the only way to recover and pull people back from people like Trump.
Bullshit. Governing is compromise, but politics is bullshit. I mean that in the literal sense. To get what you want politically, you have to push the overton window so that you can govern towards the middle. But the middle between reasonable and fascism is not a great place for governing anyone.
I mean, that’s a really low bar. I like Pete, and I would certainly vote for him instead of just about anyone in any position of government. But I do think our standards have been lowered to the point where “not a nazi shitbag” is going to put him in the upper echelon.
I agree, but in many places lesser evil is the best we can do. I think if one lives in a red state then we need to vote as much as we can to minimize harm. If we live in a blue state we need to vote for the most progressive dem in primaries to start the shift away from corporate dems. In pretty much every election from the last 30 years non voting has been the biggest voter block.
Protesting is important too, but we need to follow up the energy and vote as well. Otherwise we are saying that we care a lot about something, but not enough to go all the way with our complaint.
I’m with you completely, I’m just feeling grumpy today.
Fair enough
Pete isnt a low standard. Hes would be a good candidate in pretty much any country.
So was Obama, who led us directly to Trump. At some point, Democrats have to actually stand for something more than mere competence and being the lesser evil.
You should just throw a Blame Obama party. You’ll meet a lot of other annoying people like yourself and make new friends.
Let’s just put our heads in the sand and pretend that Democrats didn’t lose the entire fucking country. They did everything right, it’s just dumb luck.
It’s not even just the federal government. Not only did Obama lose the House and the Senate, he also lost the Democrats over a thousand statewide seats. At some point there has to be a come to Jesus moment. If things haven’t gotten bad enough now, what will it take?
Lolwut. You’re blaming Obama for what, being a black guy that made fun of Trump at a dinner? Feel free to blame the DNC or Biden for dropping out too late, or whatever. But Obama?
I don’t give a shit about Obama being black. We elected a black president so apparently we were ready for it, and that’s great. I blame Obama for selling us out to Wall Street on multiple occasions. I blame him for perfecting Clinton’s triangulation politics that replaces substance with flowery rhetoric. I blame Obama for redirecting funds traditionally used for congressional races to his own campaign chests, then blaming the Republican Congress when he couldn’t get anything done. Should I go on?
What’s this have to do with Trump
Really nothing. It has to do with fascism. Neoliberalism is losing to it all around the globe. Only Brazil and Mexico are bucking the trend, and they elected leftists.
I might be reaching, but I don’t think that was the point of their comment. A problem with the democratic party is that they’re such a big tent party that it’s hard to say what their platform and what their strategy is. They seem to only be successful when they have someone like a Bill Clinton or a Barack Obama. Someone that oozes charisma and can present a unified vision. The problem is, that never becomes the party’s vision.
You act like biden had no policy but stood on many issues. Even if we just look at the policy he passed he stood for a lot. If we expand to the policy he tried to pass he stood for even more.
He had real solutions to the problems, they were boring and bureaucratic but thats whats required. Putting a freeze on rent isnt going to fix house prices or cost of living. Only investment will fix that.
Americans have had 50 years of “progress” where all the great things Democrats say they do don’t seem to help. Technocratic improvements and even material improvements don’t even register with people anymore. Voters (regardless of what they might say) want transformative change. Forgiving some student loans is good, but free college is transformative.
Republicans offer transformative change. In the absence of anything on offer from the Democrats, the culture moves right. 50 years later and here we are.
Oh he definitely stood for things: austerity, cracking down on immigrants, and genocide
If this is all you took from Biden’s legislatively successful presidency, you’re part of the problem in America. The guy was progressive as fuck compared to most presidents.
“Hitler made the trains run on time! He was actually very progressive!”
All of politics is a compromise. You can’t actually accomplish anything if you have a dogmatic approach to it. That’s why Sanders, who I very nearly wholeheartedly support, is so rarely able to actually get anything done. And bless him for it!, he’s the moral compass we need! But to get things done, politicians need to make deals, sometimes with shitty people.
I don’t like everything that Buttigieg represents. But I like him a lot more than Newsom, who throws trans people under the buss without provocation. I certainly like him more than Joe Walsh, the ‘former’ (?) Tea Party conservative that now claims to be a Democrat.
How exactly are Republicans compromising with the American left right now?
There’s a difference between reasonable compromise and compromising with fascists who want to kill people. You cant deal with or compromise with them, especially since they will never work to compromise with you when they’re in power. And atleast so far it feels like the current democratic party tried to move right during the election to compromise with these people rather then standing firm on certain principles like protecting migrants. People like Bernie dont win because the corporate interests and the establishment of the party will throw everything against them to stop them from winning. There’s a reason one of the most popular things in America is a progressive ballot measures, even in red states.
You kind of have to, since government relies on the consent of the governed. When enough of them will no longer consent to being governed, your government will fail. But if you really want to address that problem, you look at the reasons why people turn to fascism; it’s not something that happens in a vacuum.
In this case, the dems are handling it badly; they’re trying to move to the right in order to give the fascists the things that they say they want. But what they say they want isn’t really the root issue, which means that dems can never go far enough right to win their vote.
Yeah I generally agree with you, Dems aren’t doing good at providing an alternative and are actively fighting against voices in the party who are offering an alternative. But at the same time you can’t let the fascists accomplish their agenda, you have to use the same tactics they use against the Dems when they’re in power. No compromising and obstructing on every thing you can to stop them from being able to implement what they want. Doing that while offering a progressive populist vision would be the only way to recover and pull people back from people like Trump.
Bullshit. Governing is compromise, but politics is bullshit. I mean that in the literal sense. To get what you want politically, you have to push the overton window so that you can govern towards the middle. But the middle between reasonable and fascism is not a great place for governing anyone.