So, let me get this straight, you think that you’re entitled to being a smug prick because of what? Because you’ve said something to someone? Who? How much do you want to bet that it was someone who already agreed with you?
Beyond which, I’ve gotten into a discussion with you before - what makes you think you’re particularly gifted in convincing… anyone? Of anything? How many people, we’re talking hard MAGA conservatives (you know, the people who need to be unbrainwashed) have you convinced?
Please, tell me what you’ve done Lord Dasus - give me your receipts. Show me what you’ve done. Prove it.
How many people, we’re talking hard MAGA conservatives (you know, the people who need to be unbrainwashed) have you convinced?
Several.
Well, depends on your definition, as they weren’t strictly MAGA people, but the equivalent of, in my part of the world.
I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I’m weary and making dark jokes about the US.
You get super annoyed, don’t you? I’m betting you didn’t register even 1% of 1% of that emotional response when standups were cracking jokes about Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Saddam, Afghanistan, Iraq, South American countries, etc, despite those countries also having innocent, suffering people?
You do realise humour is a way of coping, right?
You’re just getting upset because you’re the butt of the coping mechanism now. I know the US falling is indirectly a danger to me as well. I’m also aware of how chronically stubborn and willfully ignorant people are. But I have got through to several. Maybe one in two dozen, I’d say.
Hell, I once convinced a 75-year old who grew up on drug propaganda, in very drug opposing Finland, that weed should be legalised. It took about 6 hours, several pints and a bottle of Jäeger, but I found the right words and broke through. Although I have to say to he is intelligent, unlike most Americans. He was the head of the local Mensa, but that by itself doesn’t mean much. (Oh and this was in 2011 roughly, now people have slightly more liberal attitudes and the discussion of legalisation is actually on the board. And I contributed. Through political parties as well.)
I’m just one person. I actively fight disinfo and I’m in the army reserves.
No, I’m pointing out that being an asshole about it after the fact does nothing but suggest you have no idea how this happened.
You understand that, even if you were able prove these handful of people exist and were convinced by you - that there were entire teams dedicated to spreading propaganda online? Thank you for having said something before shit it the fan, it was the right thing to do - are you aware of just how silent your words were compared to the bad actors?
What you’re doing is getting mad at someone for not being able to hear your speaking voice over a jet engine. Please point to what good that does, I’m all eyes.
Again, you don’t like it when someone jokes about the shitty situation in your country but I’m pretty sure you’ve made your fair share of “delivering freedom” (as in dropping bombs on helpless victims) jokes without feeling the slightest twinge of “being smug about it.” You’ve probably not even given a second thought that you’re actually making jokes on the expense of innocent people.
“Even if these handful of people exist”
Last comment is what “you never convince anyone of anything”. Moving the goalposts much?
Here, have a look at this reply I just had a few hours back.
Not that it was about politics, but it’s just here to show your assertion about me being shit in “convincing people” is downright false. I don’t have a need to prove to you the amount of people I’ve persuaded and what of. You’re just angry I made a joke about the horrible situation you’re in.
What you’re doing is getting mad at someone
Oh no, hunny, that’s all you. I’m smooth as fuck, I’m trying to go to bed, so I’m on 3mg of melatonin, 20mg of Ambien, 45mg oxazepam and a buttload of weed. :)
Yeah, I have nothing to prove. I’m on Lemmy to spend time.
You’re lying. You don’t sincerely doubt that I’ve never convinced anyone of anything they didn’t already believe, and I’m not convincing you of anything right now either, as you already know this and thus believe in it. :)
The easiest way to “convince” people is to show them what they actually believe. A form of the Socratic method, and it’s very efficient.
Did you know anger is the emotion most likely to trigger a response in people? If so, and dark jokes can make people angry — like you are — then wouldn’t it stand to reason that due to this anger, you’re more likely to take action of some sort? (That’s a rhetorical question, because we know it to be true, unless we have to argue about that as well, in case you’re one of those "I don’t believe in the human sciences people.) If you’re American and in a horrible situation, and I believe you to be one of the (and this is reductive) “good guys”, then won’t I have theoretically helped, albeit in very indirectly?
Or this interaction make you feel better about the situation in your country?
Shaming people into action is also a thing you know.
I’m sorry that I’ve reacted emotionally to you, several times now. I’m angry, but the anger I’ve built up was born a long time before I ever knew Trump existed.
I’ve dealt with depression from a young age because I could see the writing on the wall for the people around me. No amount of personal wisdom, intellect, strength, character; could ever overcome their emotional attachment to their own ignorance. I’ve told anyone who would listen that things are going to get worse - this has typically been met with indifference and ostracization (I’ve always lived in the Central Valley of CA - lots of red voters here).
I don’t think you’re a ‘bad person’ and I’m sorry for the way that I’ve treated you.
I don’t think you’re a ‘bad person’ and I’m sorry for the way that I’ve treated you.
Honestly, no need, but thank you.
I raise my hat to you for that message. If more people were willing or even able to do what you just did, the world would be a much better place.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the three hardest words for people to say are “I was wrong.” Not that you were, this is a subjective issue, but the idea of uttering those words aloud is so scary to so many people for some reason that I honestly believe it to be a… or the problem the world is suffering from:
“The higher, pretentious form of stupidity stands only too often in crass opposition to [its] honorable form. It is not so much lack of intelligence as failure of intelligence, for the reason that it presumes to accomplishments to which it has no right … The stupidity this addresses is no mental illness, yet it is most lethal; a dangerous disease of the mind that endangers life itself. … [S]ince the ‘higher stupidity’ consists not in an inability to understand but in a refusal to understand, any healing or reversal of it will not occur through rational argumentation, through a greater accumulation of data and knowledge, or through experiencing new and different feelings … We may say that the reversal of a spiritual sickness must entail a spiritual cure.”
I can certainly say how I treated you was wrong, there’s no escaping that truth.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the three hardest words for people to say are “I was wrong.” Not that you were, this is a subjective issue, but the idea of uttering those words aloud is so scary to so many people for some reason that I honestly believe it to be a… or the problem the world is suffering from:
They can be for anyone, ultimately - negated or amplified by whether or not the people around them allow them dignity in failure. I think many people are taught to be ashamed of failure - which I think is wrong. Not shaming in and of itself, but moreso in the overly-liberal application of it. No one should be afraid to make a mistake unless someone’s life is on the line, in fact we should make mistakes so we can learn from them before things are high stakes. Especially when it comes to learning how to fail.
That’s getting off topic, though. I don’t know what the right path forward is, but it does start with people - one way or another. If you think you can spur people to action, I won’t get in your way. I might even help you, at least here.
So, let me get this straight, you think that you’re entitled to being a smug prick because of what? Because you’ve said something to someone? Who? How much do you want to bet that it was someone who already agreed with you?
Beyond which, I’ve gotten into a discussion with you before - what makes you think you’re particularly gifted in convincing… anyone? Of anything? How many people, we’re talking hard MAGA conservatives (you know, the people who need to be unbrainwashed) have you convinced?
Please, tell me what you’ve done Lord Dasus - give me your receipts. Show me what you’ve done. Prove it.
Several.
Well, depends on your definition, as they weren’t strictly MAGA people, but the equivalent of, in my part of the world.
I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I’m weary and making dark jokes about the US.
You get super annoyed, don’t you? I’m betting you didn’t register even 1% of 1% of that emotional response when standups were cracking jokes about Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Saddam, Afghanistan, Iraq, South American countries, etc, despite those countries also having innocent, suffering people?
You do realise humour is a way of coping, right?
You’re just getting upset because you’re the butt of the coping mechanism now. I know the US falling is indirectly a danger to me as well. I’m also aware of how chronically stubborn and willfully ignorant people are. But I have got through to several. Maybe one in two dozen, I’d say.
Hell, I once convinced a 75-year old who grew up on drug propaganda, in very drug opposing Finland, that weed should be legalised. It took about 6 hours, several pints and a bottle of Jäeger, but I found the right words and broke through. Although I have to say to he is intelligent, unlike most Americans. He was the head of the local Mensa, but that by itself doesn’t mean much. (Oh and this was in 2011 roughly, now people have slightly more liberal attitudes and the discussion of legalisation is actually on the board. And I contributed. Through political parties as well.)
I’m just one person. I actively fight disinfo and I’m in the army reserves.
What more can I do?
Or are you just crying about one joke?
No, I’m pointing out that being an asshole about it after the fact does nothing but suggest you have no idea how this happened.
You understand that, even if you were able prove these handful of people exist and were convinced by you - that there were entire teams dedicated to spreading propaganda online? Thank you for having said something before shit it the fan, it was the right thing to do - are you aware of just how silent your words were compared to the bad actors?
What you’re doing is getting mad at someone for not being able to hear your speaking voice over a jet engine. Please point to what good that does, I’m all eyes.
Again, you don’t like it when someone jokes about the shitty situation in your country but I’m pretty sure you’ve made your fair share of “delivering freedom” (as in dropping bombs on helpless victims) jokes without feeling the slightest twinge of “being smug about it.” You’ve probably not even given a second thought that you’re actually making jokes on the expense of innocent people.
“Even if these handful of people exist”
Last comment is what “you never convince anyone of anything”. Moving the goalposts much?
Here, have a look at this reply I just had a few hours back.
Not that it was about politics, but it’s just here to show your assertion about me being shit in “convincing people” is downright false. I don’t have a need to prove to you the amount of people I’ve persuaded and what of. You’re just angry I made a joke about the horrible situation you’re in.
Oh no, hunny, that’s all you. I’m smooth as fuck, I’m trying to go to bed, so I’m on 3mg of melatonin, 20mg of Ambien, 45mg oxazepam and a buttload of weed. :)
No you have nothing to prove, only that you’re smug and you feel self righteous about it.
You can fuck off, I sincerely doubt you’ve ever convinced anyone of anything they didn’t already believe.
Yeah, I have nothing to prove. I’m on Lemmy to spend time.
You’re lying. You don’t sincerely doubt that I’ve never convinced anyone of anything they didn’t already believe, and I’m not convincing you of anything right now either, as you already know this and thus believe in it. :)
The easiest way to “convince” people is to show them what they actually believe. A form of the Socratic method, and it’s very efficient.
Did you know anger is the emotion most likely to trigger a response in people? If so, and dark jokes can make people angry — like you are — then wouldn’t it stand to reason that due to this anger, you’re more likely to take action of some sort? (That’s a rhetorical question, because we know it to be true, unless we have to argue about that as well, in case you’re one of those "I don’t believe in the human sciences people.) If you’re American and in a horrible situation, and I believe you to be one of the (and this is reductive) “good guys”, then won’t I have theoretically helped, albeit in very indirectly?
Or this interaction make you feel better about the situation in your country?
Shaming people into action is also a thing you know.
I’m sorry that I’ve reacted emotionally to you, several times now. I’m angry, but the anger I’ve built up was born a long time before I ever knew Trump existed.
I’ve dealt with depression from a young age because I could see the writing on the wall for the people around me. No amount of personal wisdom, intellect, strength, character; could ever overcome their emotional attachment to their own ignorance. I’ve told anyone who would listen that things are going to get worse - this has typically been met with indifference and ostracization (I’ve always lived in the Central Valley of CA - lots of red voters here).
I don’t think you’re a ‘bad person’ and I’m sorry for the way that I’ve treated you.
Honestly, no need, but thank you.
I raise my hat to you for that message. If more people were willing or even able to do what you just did, the world would be a much better place.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the three hardest words for people to say are “I was wrong.” Not that you were, this is a subjective issue, but the idea of uttering those words aloud is so scary to so many people for some reason that I honestly believe it to be a… or the problem the world is suffering from:
https://howtobeastoic.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/one-crucial-word/
Enjoy your Easter, my American friend, and try to keep sane despite the world going crazy.
I can certainly say how I treated you was wrong, there’s no escaping that truth.
They can be for anyone, ultimately - negated or amplified by whether or not the people around them allow them dignity in failure. I think many people are taught to be ashamed of failure - which I think is wrong. Not shaming in and of itself, but moreso in the overly-liberal application of it. No one should be afraid to make a mistake unless someone’s life is on the line, in fact we should make mistakes so we can learn from them before things are high stakes. Especially when it comes to learning how to fail.
That’s getting off topic, though. I don’t know what the right path forward is, but it does start with people - one way or another. If you think you can spur people to action, I won’t get in your way. I might even help you, at least here.