I’ve been trying out several Linux distributions over the past couple of weeks to figure out where to go after Windows 10.
I’m very open to switching. but if I have to be honest, there are still plenty of UX problems in my experience. It’s frustrating enough that I keep going back to Windows.
I ran into various issues, one of them being (for example) incorrect behaviour of dead keys for accented characters. That problem was present in both distros, and I even went so far as to unsuccessfully edit system files to get the desired behaviour.
That problem was present in both distros, and I even went so far as to unsuccessfully edit system files to get the desired behaviour.
What desired behaviour are you talking about exactly?
Because I have used those exact two distros, also with deadkeys since I type in Portuguese and Spanish alongside English, and deadkeys works just fine for me.
So the keyboard I’m using is US International (with deadkeys), which is the standard keyboard for the Netherlands.
Certain key combinations should create an accented character, but certain other key combinations should simply print the accent followed by the character. Typing this way is essentially muscle memory for me, so if it deviates from what I’m used to it really trips me up badly.
Example:
', followed by e should type é (which Linux did correctly) ', followed by m should type 'm (where Linux typed an accented ḿ) ', followed by c should type ç (where Linux typed an accented ć) ', followed by ' should type '' (where Linux typed ') ', followed by [space] should type ' (which Linux did correctly)
I checked several forums, but there doesn’t seem to be an easy way to change this behaviour in Linux. Dead key behaviour is seemingly consistent between keyboard layouts, and it can only either be on or off?
Edit: It shouldn’t even be that complex of an improvement to the OS.
If they were to add a defintion as to how deadkeys are supposed to work as part of the keyboard layout file, this wouldn’t be an issue. I could just make my own “US Intl. with Dead Keys (NL)” layout and it would be fine.
Wow! Thank you for going through the effort of figuring out whether there was a solution for me. I really appreciate it!
And yeah… I could probably type all the characters I need to type through workarounds. But my problem is that I don’t think I should have to relearn how to type in order to switch to Linux. It’s a relatively niche issue I ran into, but I’m clearly not the only one running into it.
Which is a shame because I do want Linux to be more widely used than it is currently, and I think small annoyances like this are part of what is holding it back. It makes it more of a hassle to overcome the hurdle of switching OS.
Wow! Thank you for going through the effort of figuring out whether there was a solution for me. I really appreciate it!
You’re most welcome!
Which a shame because I do want Linux to be more widely used than it is currently, and I think small annoyances like this are part of what is holding it back.
And yes, I completely 100% agree. Hopefully there will soon be a fix for this, because like you said, it really sounds like something that should be able to be fixed relatively easily, lol.
Hopefully there will soon be a fix for this, because like you said, it really sounds like something that should be able to be fixed relatively easily, lol.
I have one final question, which you might know perhaps… Where would one go to make feature requests for Linux itself? If I quickly Google this I find places to make feature requests for specific distros, but not for Linux as a whole.
I ask because I suspect this issue is more fundamental to Linux itself, rather than the individual distros I tried.
Edit: Or maybe I am misunderstanding, and this is something that does need to be brought up with the distros
How long did you try each one? Usually when trying anything new it takes a little while to get used to the things that you readily accept as “just how things are” with something you have been using for a while. I am a long-term Linux user and I can tell you that Windows has plenty of major UX problems when I occasionally have to use it on someone else’s PC.
When the keyboard doesn’t work correctly, that is not “just how it is” though…
I’m not going to relearn how to type accents for the sake of switching to Linux. The OS should just work correctly out of the box, or at the very least give me the option to fix the behaviour without having to go 20 internet forums deep and delving into the depths of the system files.
I tried Mint for four days before getting fed up with things not working as they should, went back to Windows for a week and then tried Fedora for two days again running into very similar issues.
You might need to switch to a keyboard layout with or without dead keys depending on your preference. Not quite sure how Windows does it these days other than some vague nightmares about the layout switcher thing in the task bar from a few years ago that kept switching back semi-randomly when switching applications. Some of the changes in how accents are typed are actually related to using accented characters less than the characters on their own (e.g. backticks) but others might also be related to making things easier for people with disabilities that prevent them from pressing certain key combinations.
The issue I’m talking about is unrelated to keyboard layouts. It’s how deadkeys are implemented.
The deadkeys are seemingly defined separately from keyboard layout, and there is no way that I could find to redefine them other than either turning dead key behaviour on or off in the keyboard layouts
I’ve been trying out several Linux distributions over the past couple of weeks to figure out where to go after Windows 10.
I’m very open to switching. but if I have to be honest, there are still plenty of UX problems in my experience. It’s frustrating enough that I keep going back to Windows.
Which distribution did you try?
Mint Cinnamon and Fedora KDE Plasma Desktop.
I ran into various issues, one of them being (for example) incorrect behaviour of dead keys for accented characters. That problem was present in both distros, and I even went so far as to unsuccessfully edit system files to get the desired behaviour.
What desired behaviour are you talking about exactly?
Because I have used those exact two distros, also with deadkeys since I type in Portuguese and Spanish alongside English, and deadkeys works just fine for me.
So the keyboard I’m using is US International (with deadkeys), which is the standard keyboard for the Netherlands.
Certain key combinations should create an accented character, but certain other key combinations should simply print the accent followed by the character. Typing this way is essentially muscle memory for me, so if it deviates from what I’m used to it really trips me up badly.
Example:
', followed byeshould typeé(which Linux did correctly)', followed bymshould type'm(where Linux typed an accentedḿ)', followed bycshould typeç(where Linux typed an accentedć)', followed by'should type''(where Linux typed')', followed by[space]should type'(which Linux did correctly)I checked several forums, but there doesn’t seem to be an easy way to change this behaviour in Linux. Dead key behaviour is seemingly consistent between keyboard layouts, and it can only either be on or off?
Edit: It shouldn’t even be that complex of an improvement to the OS.
If they were to add a defintion as to how deadkeys are supposed to work as part of the keyboard layout file, this wouldn’t be an issue. I could just make my own “US Intl. with Dead Keys (NL)” layout and it would be fine.
Hey, so I just tested this and you’re right, it doesn’t work as you described.
I suppose I unconsciously found workarounds and just ran with it.
For the examples you mentioned:
I’m is achieved by typing ’ and then space.
ç you can get with AltGr+<
The other two, I have no idea what they are, but I trust your judgment.
I also went around some forums and yeah it appears other people report it doesn’t work as it should. A bummer.
Maybe there already are some custom keyboard layouts out there you can download?
To get
Wow! Thank you for going through the effort of figuring out whether there was a solution for me. I really appreciate it!
And yeah… I could probably type all the characters I need to type through workarounds. But my problem is that I don’t think I should have to relearn how to type in order to switch to Linux. It’s a relatively niche issue I ran into, but I’m clearly not the only one running into it.
Which is a shame because I do want Linux to be more widely used than it is currently, and I think small annoyances like this are part of what is holding it back. It makes it more of a hassle to overcome the hurdle of switching OS.
You’re most welcome!
And yes, I completely 100% agree. Hopefully there will soon be a fix for this, because like you said, it really sounds like something that should be able to be fixed relatively easily, lol.
Anyways, best of luck to you in the future!
I have one final question, which you might know perhaps… Where would one go to make feature requests for Linux itself? If I quickly Google this I find places to make feature requests for specific distros, but not for Linux as a whole.
I ask because I suspect this issue is more fundamental to Linux itself, rather than the individual distros I tried.
Edit: Or maybe I am misunderstanding, and this is something that does need to be brought up with the distros
How long did you try each one? Usually when trying anything new it takes a little while to get used to the things that you readily accept as “just how things are” with something you have been using for a while. I am a long-term Linux user and I can tell you that Windows has plenty of major UX problems when I occasionally have to use it on someone else’s PC.
When the keyboard doesn’t work correctly, that is not “just how it is” though…
I’m not going to relearn how to type accents for the sake of switching to Linux. The OS should just work correctly out of the box, or at the very least give me the option to fix the behaviour without having to go 20 internet forums deep and delving into the depths of the system files.
I tried Mint for four days before getting fed up with things not working as they should, went back to Windows for a week and then tried Fedora for two days again running into very similar issues.
You might need to switch to a keyboard layout with or without dead keys depending on your preference. Not quite sure how Windows does it these days other than some vague nightmares about the layout switcher thing in the task bar from a few years ago that kept switching back semi-randomly when switching applications. Some of the changes in how accents are typed are actually related to using accented characters less than the characters on their own (e.g. backticks) but others might also be related to making things easier for people with disabilities that prevent them from pressing certain key combinations.
The issue I’m talking about is unrelated to keyboard layouts. It’s how deadkeys are implemented.
The deadkeys are seemingly defined separately from keyboard layout, and there is no way that I could find to redefine them other than either turning dead key behaviour on or off in the keyboard layouts