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I think I had a stroke trying to comprehend this
Almost self aware.
I have to support the wrong side because my family is on the wrong side.
If being right means death for your family, it is rational to be wrong.
If my family are genocidal cunts, they get the least dramatic ending that stops their bullshit, and not one bit less.
Except that the slave owners were fine after the civil war. There were no mass executions, they got to keep their property (slaves excepted) and they retained so much political power they managed to reverse reconstruction within a few decades.
There’s no reason you couldn’t dissolve the apartheid state without the violence Zionists claim would be wrought on them. South Africa can be a model for this.
Except the North didn’t want mass executions and was willing to let the South keep their institutions.
I can assure you, Israel’s neighbors would be more than happy to burn it to the ground. So while you could dissolve the Zionist state, you would have to do so while still supporting the defense of Israel, or else you’d just switch from a massacre of Palestinians to a massacre of Jews.
So what you are saying, Israel neighbours would be happy to do with Israel the same Israel do to Gaza?
Is it an argument against? So we should have saved Nazis in the 2WW, yes?
… If we had been more rough on the slave owners America would be a far better place.
No statues to hitler and goering in Germany.
Except white farmers were slaughtered in south africa…
All of them? I’m pretty sure there’s still a lot of white south Africans around, just because there were a few incidents doesn’t make it largely peaceful. The alternative to a peaceful transition is Rhodesia, if you want to go the route of constant escalation.
The ANC made a special point to protect the apartheidists during their Truth and Reconciliation hearings. It wasn’t until said white farmers began violently resisting efforts to repatriate land to native farmers that the government lost control of retribution. Even then, they weren’t “slaughtered”. Many simply abandoned the properties after the ANC failed to intercede on their behalf.
Quite a few white South Africans are currently leaving to become converts to Judaism in order to participate in the Israeli Settler Movement
From a former Pentecostal pastor to entire families, a growing number of Afrikaners are converting to Orthodox Judaism and swapping South Africa for Israel – and, in many cases, West Bank settlements
Civil War was a country fighting itself for a few years. Israel and Palestine have been at odds for… Ever. There’s a little more animosity than the civil war. Also dissolving the apartheid state is anathema to Israel because they don’t want to share the land.
Israel and Palestine haven’t been at odds forever, they were at odds since WW1. There were long periods in time where people lived peacefully. There were religious tolerance laws going back to like 600AD. Christian pilgrims going there en masse. Treaties between Crusaders and Egypt allowing for religious freedoms. Almost 500 years of Ottoman rule, where anyone could practice any religion if they paid a tax. Communities had autonomy and could govern themselves according to their own laws - be it Christian, Jewish or Muslim. Said tax also exempt you from military service and was “proof” of allegiance to the state. Women, children, elders didn’t have to pay the tax at all. There were exceptions for basically anyone who couldn’t pay it - handicapped people for instance. If you were allowed to join the army, then when you did, the tax was waived with all the benefits still being given to you. Hell, some even were exempt for being too poor to pay it. The tax was cirqa 10 days of expenses of an average family. The richer you were, the tax went higher.
You also need to remember, that the population of Palestine was like 200k, with all the now huge cities having maybe 5k people in them in the 15th hundreds. 700k people in the early 20th century, when the Brits pulled a switcharoo and established a Jewish state. Any animosity from the past was long gone. The issues are because Jewish people were being resettled into Palestine in alarming numbers. Also, the literal decimation of palestinian population by the brits in 39’. Also the 700k people displaced in the Nakba. Also the further 400k displaced later. The genocide was happening in the 20th century. With people earlier living in a relatively free society. The formation of the state of Israel began with countries basically throwing a “hot potato” to Palestine, by genociding their own Jewish populations by sending them to Palestine. A one state solution was within reach, but it’s hard to do if you just draw straight lines on the map and call it a day.
As for the current day - Germany was the most horrific country during WW2 with countless warcrimes and mass killings, genocide of a few different cultures / countries, and the Holocaust. Now, after the war, Germany was welcomed back into Europe, rebuilt and is playing the first fiddle in the European Union, alongside France (and until recently the UK). If that can happen after Prussia, two World Wars, after Hitler, after the Holocaust, then a peace in Palestine is 100% possible.
What needs to happen is someone needs to kick Netanyahu in the balls really really hard. The government of Israel needs to change. The United States needs to stop its unconditional support of Israel - instead basing it on Israel and Palestine staying peaceful. And with time, wounds will heal. People will marry one another. Communities will blend together. And even if a single state solution is probably off the table in any way, shape or form, for at least a century, a two state solution is feasible.
The issue is, the US doesn’t need a peaceful Middle East. They need the “unsinkable aircraft carrier”. The US government doesn’t care that Palestine is disappearing and Israel is taking over. They might care that they antagonize Iran by bombing Iran. But at the end of the day, it’s just a statistic and “single issue vote” to many people, instead of the horrific reality. So until US voters see peace in the Middle East as an important issue, the genocide will continue.
That’s the same self serving BS excuse we heard from slave owners during the civil war, and from Afrikaners during apartheid.
You are delusional if you think you would have done any differently if you had been in their position.
If my family owned slaves they could go fuck themselves. Sorry to hear family is more important to you than not supporting horrifying amounts of racism, I hope they’re not voting for trump
I don’t even care if I get banned from this community for saying this: I hope to your (imaginary) god that you die a horrifying and public death. Ideally sooner rather than later. You, and everyone who thinks like you, are directly responsible for SO MUCH of the evil in this world.
I FUCKING HATE YOU, and everything you stand for.
You might be in denial over this, but had you lived in Nazi Germany, statistically you would have been a nazi. A concentration camp guard even.
“The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either – but right through every human heart – and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. And even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained.”
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
It is like saying that someone who had a family living in Nazi Germany definitely had to support holocaust and the Nazis.
No, because after the war we didn’t just wait 10 years and let the nazis take power again and reinstitute their racism, their ghettos, and a scaled down, more personal version of the holocaust.
And tbf, Hitler wrote about Jim Crow as a shining example for Germany in Mein kampf.
Germans at least showed remorse, we don’t have statues of Hitler and goering around everywhere still.
Nazis are in charge of Israel for a while and Israel is yet to be disarmed so I am not sure what is you are talking about.
I think you really need to look up the definition of the word nazi…
Nobody from or in any way related to the National Socialist Party of Germany (NSDAP) is currently in any form of power in Israel.
I think you really need to look up the definition of the word nazi…
Okay, let’s see…
a person who seeks to impose their views on others in a very autocratic or inflexible way.
Words sometimes mean more than one thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izium_mass_graves
I think that’s pretty nazi-esque right there.
But keep trying to rewrite English.
We don’t have the same level of Vranyo they have.
But keep trying to rewrite English.
Spoken like someone who doesn’t understand language enough to know that it evolves.
Spoken like someone who believes words mean whatever they want them to mean.
You have been misinformed.
Have I then?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party
The Nazi Party,[b] officially the National Socialist German Workers’ Party (German: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei [c] or NSDAP), was a far-right[10][11][12] political party in Germany active between 1920 and 1945 that created and supported the ideology of Nazism. Its precursor, the German Workers’ Party (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei; DAP), existed from 1919 to 1920. The Nazi Party emerged from the extremist German nationalist (“Völkisch nationalist”), racist and populist Freikorps paramilitary culture, which fought against communist uprisings in post–World War I Germany.[13] The party was created to draw workers away from communism and into völkisch nationalism.[14] Initially, Nazi political strategy focused on anti–big business, anti-bourgeois, and anti-capitalist rhetoric; it was later downplayed to gain the support of business leaders. By the 1930s, the party’s main focus shifted to antisemitic and anti-Marxist themes.[15] The party had little popular support until the Great Depression, when worsening living standards and widespread unemployment drove Germans into political extremism.[12]
How was I misinformed?
Oh, this is one of those “I don’t like being called names so I’ll redefine words” things?
Let’s have a think…
Aggressive wars again neighbours
Creating a lebensraum for chosen race
Racism and racist laws
Exterminating lesser races
Ghettos and concentration camps
Tortures
Naah, definitively not a nazism, sweetheart 😂
Aggressive wars again neighbours - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
Creating a lebensraum for chosen race - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union
forcibly transferred populations of various groups. These actions may be classified into the following broad categories: deportations of “anti-Soviet” categories of population (often classified as “enemies of the people”), deportations of entire nationalities, labor force transfer, and organized migrations in opposite directions to fill ethnically cleansed territories. Dekulakization marked the first time that an entire class was deported, whereas the deportation of Soviet Koreans in 1937 marked the precedent of a specific ethnic deportation of an entire nationality.[9]
Racism and racist laws - ditto
Exterminating lesser races - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
Ghettos and concentration camps - Literally all of Siberia as gulags: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag
I mean Beria counts as torture and serial pedophilic rape, so take your pick.
How about ethno-fascist gleefully watching and cheering as babies get bombed.
And no this doesn’t mean I endorse Hamas or Hezbollah
No, I’m furious Ukrainian civilians are getting bombed, it enrages me.
Which is why I am gleefully watching the Russian invader filth suffer and die painfully :)
Kinda did tho, unless you wanted to be part of the holocaust yourself.
That’s like saying German citizens during WW2 should be killed, raped and tortured. Black and white is usually the wrong way to go about thinking.
Without commenting on whether I agree with the screenshot, I’d like to ask a question - what do you (as in, the people who would like to see “Zionism” defeated) think will happen if “Zionism” will be defeated?
The same as happened in Germany. People guilty of war crimes and supporting nazi regime would end in prison. What do YOU think would happen to them?
of the people involved in the nazi governement few were actually prosecuted after the war…
Too few, that’s true.
You think Hamas would treat Israelis the same as the allied forces treated Germans? Based on what?
To answer your question:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_October_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel#Reported_atrocities (as well as the mass murder of civilians that for some reason aren’t mentioned in the section)
Firstly, who was talking about Hamas? I never said Israel should be disarmed by Hamas. It should be disarmed by an international coalition, which would then it turn guarantee harsh punishment for Israeli war criminals starting with Netanyahu and safety for civilian population within Israel internationally recognises borders.
Secondly, I belive Hamas would treat Israeli the same way Israel treats Palestinians. Go figure.
What “should”? The context of the discussion is the screenshot, and it said "if “Zionism is defeated like the south was defeated in the civil war”. The comparison to the US civil war might be a bit weird, but it’s pretty obvious he means “If Hamas were to win the conflict and treat Israel as it saw fit” (like what happened in the civil war).
Also, it’s a bit weird for me you’re phrasing your scenario as a “Zionist defeat”, as I know many Zionists (myself included) who would view that as a “Zionist win”, at least in the long run (as long as you’re for equal treatment of Hamas and Palestinians).
Secondly, I belive Hamas would treat Israeli the same way Israel treats Palestinians.
That’s a bit funny to me, as I think Hamas treats Palestinians wore than Israel treats Palestinians, but there’s probably no point going into that. Regardless, do you think this would be worse, the same or better than the current situation?
The way that Hamas treats Palestinians is partially the responsibility of Netanyahu and the Likud given that they provided Hamas with material support to take power in the first place. Also, the fact that Israelis stormed an IDF base in protest of the punishment of IDF thugs that anally raped innocent Palestinians to death with rifles tells me a lot about what Israel thinks of all Palestinians, not just the ones that are actually part of Hamas.
Edit: Here’s an article describing the way the IDF treats doctors and paramedics. (Who are not members of Hamas) https://www.democracynow.org/2024/8/27/hrw_report
First of all, you didn’t address the main point I was making, or answered my question (just wanted to point that out).
The way that Hamas treats Palestinians is partially the responsibility of Netanyahu and the Likud given that they provided Hamas with material support to take power in the first place.
Not really. Netanyahu didn’t provide material support for Hamas, rather allowed Qatar to materially support them (Yet somehow I don’t see anyone condemning Qatar…). Also, this began about a decade after Hamas took over Gaza. And, really, it’s an extremely weak argument even if what you said were true. Saying Israel is partially responsible for the way Hamas treated the people in Gaza doesn’t mean it treated Palestinians worse than Hamas.
Also, the fact that Israelis stormed an IDF base in protest of the punishment of IDF thugs that anally raped innocent Palestinians to death with rifles
That’s not what happened. The IDF detained some soldiers who allegedly anally raped and perhaps killed Palestinian detainees as part of an investigation. After hearing that, some extreme right wingers stormed the base in something raging from protest against the way soldiers were detained to the mere fact they were detained (depending on who you ask). The act was condemned by a huge majority of the Israeli public. Judging Israel by that is like judging the US by the proud boys of the Jan 6th Capitol riots. But let’s go back to your point of Israel treating Palestinians worse than Hamas - could you point out an example of Hamas investigating it’s operatives for mistreating detainees? If not, is it because you think Hamas doesn’t mistreat its detainees?
I think Hamas treats Palestinians wore than Israel treats Palestinians,
In 12 months, Israel has killed 40,000+ Palestinians, more than a third of those have been children.
Also, it’s a bit weird for me you’re phrasing your scenario as a “Zionist defeat”, as I know many Zionists (myself included) who would view that as a “Zionist win”, at least in the long run
Try to read again. Slowly.
Counteroffer - try to read what I said with the understanding there might be a difference between what you think “Zionism” is and what Zionism actually is. Not all Zionists would agree with what I said, but then again that’s also one of the thing you probably don’t understand.
A friend of mine works in a fast-fashion boutique. I support child labor, because I know the consequences it could have for her if the clothes were more expensive.
Children have a right to be exploited for cheap labor like everyone else!
The American civil war was bloody, but its not like the south was eradicated…
Almost quite the contrary considering the confederate flag is still waved around despite literally losing.
“My family live in the terrorist state, therefore I have to support the terrorist state”
Do they mean the USA civil war and that south, or one of many other civil wars?
The USA South is fine. Fully integrated. They just couldn’t be dicks for a while.
The US south are functionally third world countries.
Fuck off, yankee. Like the rest of the country doesn’t have backwoods towns with morons in it too, oh no, that’s purely a southern problem. And racism? No, no, places like Ohio and Illinois and fuckin Glendale, California don’t have racist idiots, certainly.
Any problem you can find with the south can be found anywhere else in the country, y’all just like to put blinders on.
First world is not “best world” but western aligned countries
Second world is not “the meh world” but eastern block aligned countries
The third world isn’t “shit hole” but non-aligned countries
I thought we all learned this already
The third world isn’t “shit hole” but non-aligned countries
That’s the etymology but this definition really changed since and the “third world” is often used to describe poor countries (also “developing countries”).
Well of course, he’s talking about the War of Palestinian aggression. Where his ancestors fought against the Palestinian incursions into the peaceful Israel South to stop his people from being oppressed and their way of life radically altered, if not extinguished! They would have won it if not for the blockade and Emancipation Proclamation.
Legally integrated, but I wouldn’t say fully. Source: living in the South.
