I upvoted, but these kinds of posts make me uncomfortable. Luigi was a wealthy crypto bro working though a mental crisis. Luigi is not lefty batman.
I am very happy about the discussions his actions are creating and the overreaction from the upper class, but I am not sure it is a good idea to glorify Luigi.
“the point of theory is to change the world” -Marx. If the left does nothing then the left has failed us. Luigi isn’t perfect, but he is a real person who was willing to sacrifice everything, to walk away from a life of comfort and privilege, just to take a stand against evil and to show the entire world that even a god king can bleed (300 reference)
That’s why I use Saint Luigi. It’s a ignore all the things that don’t line up with the ideal, and only focus on those that do kind of thing. Just like the churches do with thier saints. Lol
tangentially I feel like Batman could never jive with leftist ideology anyhow. His whole thing is beating and scaring the crime out of people, which is in contrast to the leftist idea that crime happens because the needs of individuals (physical, psychological, and social) are not met by their material conditions.
Well you can’t fix it from within the system. You can’t fix it with vigilantism, but it can be fixed as every other country in earth has fixed this problem.
There was time to fix it from within the system. That was before the fascist dictator was elected. There is no fix at this point. The good news is it will almost certainly come all crashing down due to incompetence and you only have a few years before global warming because a much bigger problem than healthcare anyway.
What do I want? A socialist utopia. I’m just not under any illusions about it happening in America.
You apparently do. Trump has nothing, whatsoever, to do with the state of healthcare, and won’t. The ACA was a Republican think tank health plan, and is directly responsible for the state we’re in. Healthcare reform hasn’t been on the table in a serious manner in this country, from any party.
His generally agreed upon biography is a wealthy billionaire trust fund baby who suffered great emotional loss and broke, who now spends the rest of his life and fortune fighting injustice
I think this is less about actually making Luigi a political leader and more about reminding everyone that the actual political leaders the working class puts forward deserve consideration as a compromise by the powerful people in the system, because the working class could at any point decide to stop compromising.
The System works by compromising, should the system through fuckery stop delivering acceptable compromise, the (by far) larger class has other ways to defend its interests.
That’s the point though- people tried playing by the rules, the system shat in their faces. Now you have people snapping and going vigilante with guns and that’s called consequence.
You break the socialist contract, bad things start getting lauded
Yeah, I get that this is an inevitable outcome. But now that we’re talking about it, instead of putting every CEO’s head on a spike, let’s try to do something more constructive. You know like creates systemic change to close the wealth Gap.
I’m still proposing that we take the richest person in the US every year, and confiscate 50% of their wealth and use it to fund healthcare, housing, education and food (all basic needs that the top 1% has stolen from us). Then we build a statue in their honor somewhere, labeling them as “This Year’s greatest winner and Patriot”.
Just because he’s your “modern day folk hero” doesn’t make him or his actions immune to scrutiny. This way of thinking opens doors that people like you tend to stand firmly against.
No one should ever stand above our laws, our standards of morality, or our ethical codes of conduct without question. And propping someone up to such a height makes you every bit as bad as those you accuse of doing so.
I don’t think he’s a hero, but his actions are the inevitable outcome of our system.
When justice can no longer be achieved through peaceful demonstration or the legal system, people will increasingly turn to violence as their only option.
While I won’t celebrate violence, I do prefer targeted violence upon those causing the damage to mass murders of innocents.
If you’re going to murder someone - don’t. But if that doesn’t stop you, I’d rather the victim be someone who damages the world instead of schoolchildren and churchgoers.
The NOLA NYE terrorist attack on random party-goers is also an inevitable outcome of our system.
A lot of people on Lemmy believe that a wealthy elite controls the whole system. I think it’s far more likely that no one controls the system. Sure, some people are able to get rich off the system and carve out a little niche for themselves but the whole state apparatus is just a big tug of war that’s long since pulled everyone into the mud pit.
Political gridlock was long ago designed into the system as a way of preserving the compromise between ideologically disparate groups. Now we’re reaping what we sowed.
A lot of people on Lemmy believe that a wealthy elite controls the whole system. I think it’s far more likely that no one controls the system. Sure, some people are able to get rich off the system and carve out a little niche for themselves but the whole state apparatus is just a big tug of war that’s long since pulled everyone into the mud pit.
The closest I’ve seen to that is people explaining that the upper owning class has influence and control over many aspects of society, like politicians and mass media, but this does imply a conspiracy, that any one group has a cohesive agenda or control. It’s more about acknowledging a mutual class interest among the owning class which trends towards certain outcomes despite that tug of war among them.
He’s part of the reason I hate phrases like “Kill all billionaires”.
Yes, most rich people are pretty evil, and I’d like them taken to task. But simply being born into fortunate circumstances doesn’t make someone evil; it’s the things they DO to keep that wealth that make them a greater or lesser evil. Ideally, everyone would have at least that basic quality of life that he did. Investing in crypto is one thing, but if he committed some atrocity using crypto I’ve yet to hear about it.
Mental health crises are very common now. They don’t necessarily make the act “not brave”.
I have the position that murder is the least ideal form of change, but as the post states all less violent options have been removed from the table at this time. It’s sad that CEO (person) was killed, but it may have been an inevitable outcome.
It’s sad that people with for-profit health insurance are forced to buy it and then killed when they can’t use it. Then I feel bad for CEOs who kill their clients some time later I imagine.
I upvoted, but these kinds of posts make me uncomfortable. Luigi was a wealthy crypto bro working though a mental crisis. Luigi is not lefty batman.
I am very happy about the discussions his actions are creating and the overreaction from the upper class, but I am not sure it is a good idea to glorify Luigi.
Crypto bro working through a mental crisis… not lefty batman…
Batman was a rich bro with severe mental trauma. Any modern reboot would have no problem making Wayne a crypto bro.
If you’re waiting for perfect, you’ll be waiting for ever.
unfortunately it is also a bad showing of the left because this guy ends up taking more action.
“the point of theory is to change the world” -Marx. If the left does nothing then the left has failed us. Luigi isn’t perfect, but he is a real person who was willing to sacrifice everything, to walk away from a life of comfort and privilege, just to take a stand against evil and to show the entire world that even a god king can bleed (300 reference)
That sounds a lot like Batman.
That’s why I use Saint Luigi. It’s a ignore all the things that don’t line up with the ideal, and only focus on those that do kind of thing. Just like the churches do with thier saints. Lol
Explain how Batman was not a wealthy crypto bro working though a mental crisis ?
lmaooo
tangentially I feel like Batman could never jive with leftist ideology anyhow. His whole thing is beating and scaring the crime out of people, which is in contrast to the leftist idea that crime happens because the needs of individuals (physical, psychological, and social) are not met by their material conditions.
Like, why do people always jump to thinking there can only be one correct option out of multiple choices?
I am sure there are many people committing crimes because they can’t fulfill their basic needs any other way.
But do you think Trump is lacking in material conditions? People are diverse and they commit crimes for diverse reasons.
Good point ☝️
Also batman didn’t change the systemic issues with Gotham.
This is exactly what I have been saying since the assassination. You cannot fix systemic problems with vigilantism.
Did anyone’s coverage go down? No. Did UHC just deny the claim of a woman in a coma? Yes.
https://www.newsweek.com/united-healtchare-claim-deny-brian-thompson-luigi-mangione-insurance-2008307
You cannot fix systemic problems with vigilantism.
Well you can’t fix it from within the system. You can’t fix it with vigilantism, but it can be fixed as every other country in earth has fixed this problem.
The fuck do you people want then?
There was time to fix it from within the system. That was before the fascist dictator was elected. There is no fix at this point. The good news is it will almost certainly come all crashing down due to incompetence and you only have a few years before global warming because a much bigger problem than healthcare anyway.
What do I want? A socialist utopia. I’m just not under any illusions about it happening in America.
No, there demonstrably wasn’t. This happened under Biden.
Sorry, do you think time began in 2020?
You apparently do. Trump has nothing, whatsoever, to do with the state of healthcare, and won’t. The ACA was a Republican think tank health plan, and is directly responsible for the state we’re in. Healthcare reform hasn’t been on the table in a serious manner in this country, from any party.
When has Batman been lefty?
His generally agreed upon biography is a wealthy billionaire trust fund baby who suffered great emotional loss and broke, who now spends the rest of his life and fortune fighting injustice
There will never be the perfect Robin Hood. Engels was wealthy, Bernie is a millionaire.
Really the point is that Luigi is (allegedly) right, and represents a justifiable sentiment of disdain for the system and class solidarity.
I agree. Do we really want to make Luigi a political leader then?
I think this is less about actually making Luigi a political leader and more about reminding everyone that the actual political leaders the working class puts forward deserve consideration as a compromise by the powerful people in the system, because the working class could at any point decide to stop compromising.
The System works by compromising, should the system through fuckery stop delivering acceptable compromise, the (by far) larger class has other ways to defend its interests.
He was not wealthy if he couldn’t afford the health care…
All I know is that his family is very wealthy. I hadn’t heard that he couldn’t afford healthcare. Do you have a source on that?
I thought the dead healthcare CEO was the source.
You can kill an insurance CEO while being covered by said insurance.
In the manifesto I read he had coverage. It didn’t matter because the claims were denied.
Do you have that link? When I search for the manifesto I get this one: https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/luigis-manifesto and it doesn’t say anything about coverage or getting denied.
That’s the point though- people tried playing by the rules, the system shat in their faces. Now you have people snapping and going vigilante with guns and that’s called consequence.
You break the socialist contract, bad things start getting lauded
Yeah, I get that this is an inevitable outcome. But now that we’re talking about it, instead of putting every CEO’s head on a spike, let’s try to do something more constructive. You know like creates systemic change to close the wealth Gap.
I’m still proposing that we take the richest person in the US every year, and confiscate 50% of their wealth and use it to fund healthcare, housing, education and food (all basic needs that the top 1% has stolen from us). Then we build a statue in their honor somewhere, labeling them as “This Year’s greatest winner and Patriot”.
I appreciate you trying to shift the narrative and demonize our modern day folk hero, but it’s probably not going to work.
Just because he’s your “modern day folk hero” doesn’t make him or his actions immune to scrutiny. This way of thinking opens doors that people like you tend to stand firmly against.
No one should ever stand above our laws, our standards of morality, or our ethical codes of conduct without question. And propping someone up to such a height makes you every bit as bad as those you accuse of doing so.
Lol WTF.
They said it makes them uncomfortable, and explained why.
Don’t bring this kind of conversation shutdown, bad faith misinterpreting, toxicity BS from reddit.
Demonize? What have I said that was incorrect?
I don’t think he’s a hero, but his actions are the inevitable outcome of our system.
When justice can no longer be achieved through peaceful demonstration or the legal system, people will increasingly turn to violence as their only option.
While I won’t celebrate violence, I do prefer targeted violence upon those causing the damage to mass murders of innocents.
If you’re going to murder someone - don’t. But if that doesn’t stop you, I’d rather the victim be someone who damages the world instead of schoolchildren and churchgoers.
The NOLA NYE terrorist attack on random party-goers is also an inevitable outcome of our system.
A lot of people on Lemmy believe that a wealthy elite controls the whole system. I think it’s far more likely that no one controls the system. Sure, some people are able to get rich off the system and carve out a little niche for themselves but the whole state apparatus is just a big tug of war that’s long since pulled everyone into the mud pit.
Political gridlock was long ago designed into the system as a way of preserving the compromise between ideologically disparate groups. Now we’re reaping what we sowed.
The closest I’ve seen to that is people explaining that the upper owning class has influence and control over many aspects of society, like politicians and mass media, but this does imply a conspiracy, that any one group has a cohesive agenda or control. It’s more about acknowledging a mutual class interest among the owning class which trends towards certain outcomes despite that tug of war among them.
He’s part of the reason I hate phrases like “Kill all billionaires”.
Yes, most rich people are pretty evil, and I’d like them taken to task. But simply being born into fortunate circumstances doesn’t make someone evil; it’s the things they DO to keep that wealth that make them a greater or lesser evil. Ideally, everyone would have at least that basic quality of life that he did. Investing in crypto is one thing, but if he committed some atrocity using crypto I’ve yet to hear about it.
Mental health crises are very common now. They don’t necessarily make the act “not brave”.
I have the position that murder is the least ideal form of change, but as the post states all less violent options have been removed from the table at this time. It’s sad that CEO (person) was killed, but it may have been an inevitable outcome.
It’s sad that people with for-profit health insurance are forced to buy it and then killed when they can’t use it. Then I feel bad for CEOs who kill their clients some time later I imagine.