I remember my father telling me (probably slightly after my first son was born, great timing indeed!), it would have been a pity to gave birth to someone in this timeline.
Period was around 2010/11, I thought he was just extreme and depressed. Today I can’t really say he was wrong. We western people are just going to see a colossal crash and I feel bad having my kids as a spectator for that.
Humanity has seen crashes like this before, and worse. There’s a lot of philosophical arguments around natalism, but at the end of the day, there’s an argument to be made for having kids–even in a rough time.
All we can do at this point is try to equip our kids for the worst, and give them our best while we can. Their lives will be harder than ours in some ways, but possibly better in others. For example, kids today have such better emotional intelligence at a younger age than anyone in my generation did. They’re not perfect, but overall I’m super proud of how the newer generations are turning out. I hope to inspire my own kids by working for positive change, to eventually pass them the torch to do the same. And if I can find some value in that, I hope they can as well.
I had an elderly relative say something similar to me in the early 90s. We aren’t special. People have felt this way forever.
I’m not optimistic about the future, but I don’t think things will necessarily be that bad. Looking at child mortality rates alone, you could say that we’re leaving in a golden age. There’s a lot that’s wrong, but there’s a lot that’s okay too.
I think most of history was riddled with wars the short time after WWII until now was a big exception and out exponential exploitation of the natural resources was never sustainable, but that was what was keeping us from going to war. We had the feeling that everyone can be lifted out of poverty, etc. until the billionaires class took it, but I digress.
We don’t exist for the vast majority of the universes timeline and then we are born and can experience the universe for a blink of an eye. On top if that all the humans who could exist compared to the ones who really start existing and experiencing the universe, it’s nothing short of a miracle that anyone exists at all.
Damn, it’s difficult to explain what I’m trying to say in a short way, but existing, even in a difficult time is preferable to not existing, at least you have the chance to experience the universe and have the slim chance to make children who then also can do that and get their own and so on and perhaps we will get some breakthrough of free energy or something which will make wars for resources unnecessary in the future like imagined in Star Trek for example.
Not having children robbs us all including the universe from that future, just because we need a unbroken chain of humans to get there even through the tough times.
And no, leaving the having children only to billionaires is not an option because then the whole world would consist of entitled assholes and thus is not a way to go to the future.
Apart from that you can’t know the exact future of your child, it’s not 100℅ sure it will be shit or that they only can thrive in a nice environment but instead can step up to be a leader who will bring us out of the shithole or brings joy and relieve with their work in arts or music, etc.
I just listened to the podcast A brief history of Bethofen and his live was objectivally terrible, losing his hearing in his 20’s, never finding lasting love, mother dies young, father is a drunk, later Bethofen himself becomes an alcoholic, etc. But his life was still totally worth living even with all the hardships, and he left us such an amazing legace to enjoy for several hundred years already.
Thx for your passionate answer.
I get your point, but due my actual state of mind I can’t really follow you.
I feel that having child is a selfish behavior, nobody asked you to do that (except society), universe would be fine either way and probably better if you don’t. We live in a wonderful planet and still we’re destroying it.
Let me say it with Carl Sagans words:
“We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself.”
Your dad’s a cunt.
It sounds like that when you’re young and depression free. I thought the same as you.
It would be nice to spend some other words, cause your state could be write from any bot and/or asshole.
Just, cause you know, it’s a soxial place your looking at, so be social.
He was right, and yes, we will indeed see a colossal crash within the next few decades unless some truly magical technology somehow happens, and that would just kick the can down the road a bit further anyway, unless we can rein in the culture of colonialism and endless growth.
Two books that are vital reading in this time:
The Limits to Growth by The Club of Rome
and
Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.
Parenting is one of the most natural and essential human experiences. Don’t regret it, even if you expect things to be harder for your child or children. Don’t sugar coat things for your kids either, we have hard times ahead. No one can be certain even of next week, and life wants to create life. Each moment is worth it.
I don’t regret parenting itself, but when you see Elmo desperately asking us to make more children, in an already overpopulated planet, you start thinking that doing the opposite is the right way.
Sure, I agree, but I think it’s reasonable to think about limiting procreation ideally to one child per couple ethically who wants the experience of parenting - obviously if you’ve already had more, there’s no backsies, but the pathway of many countries now is even below that number anyway. It’s absolutely sick the Christofascist obsession with forcing women to give birth especially as they really don’t care what happens to the babies once they are born. But if you want to parent, it really is a wonderful thing. If you WANT it, not forced, and not selfishly breeding beyond the capacity of the planet, which no individual is doing if they only replace one for two leaving, that’s the right direction (but it doesn’t work for colonialism, oh noes)
Managed population descent is possible though, even if unlikely, and we can hope that the overall population growth curve is maxed out very soon by choice not by circumstance/disaster.
To try to add a positive slant to my agreement with this.
“hard times make hard people, hard people make good times.” (paraphrasing as I haven’t found time to dig out the original quote)
We are the parents shaping the people who save the world.
