Do China next
russian economy after over 1k days of war is evaporized and putin now is Xis little dog. so if we all work together now nobody will remember a country called russia in 100 years. nations are just a phantasy and it wont hurt to let go of some.
He didn’t expel all Russians, just the ones working for sanctioned Russian companies.
Good! So why the incendiary comments Linus made on Russians. It is so hard to say something like this: "I have to expel them from the project due to a US law forced us to do it. However, I had trust on them all these years and they contributed a lot to the project (that is why they were working here). Now, I am against the law because we should not discriminate people for the origin. Moreover, the claim that they can harm the software is unwarranted because it is OPEN and many eyes are on it. Finally, this harms the entire Linux project because now makes it an “American"project rather than an global one. Sad times.”
xz attack was an open source attack and it would be silly to assume that it was unique.
This has nothing to do with xz
I don’t think you understood their point.
What did I miss?
In response to:
Moreover, the claim that they can harm the software is unwarranted because it is OPEN and many eyes are on it.
The xz attack was an intentional backdoor put into a project that was “OPEN and many eyes are on it.” Also, it was discovered due to the way it was executing and not because someone found it in the source. The original assumption has been proven wrong.
Oh, yep I didn’t see that. Though definitely more eyes are on Linux than were on xz
Have you noticed exactly how many Russians are bigots who support the mass murder of their neighbors?
You are going to find bigots in every country. In US the biggest political figures right now are a fascist and a genocide supporter.
I mean there’s probably a lot who don’t, but they’re busy firing missiles at civilians in Ukraine to get around their 15y work camp sentence.
I am also against Russian aggression on Ukraine! But would no ban any Russian because of that. The same I am completely against US occupying Iraq and 1/3 of Syria, yet never would occur to me not to hire an American because what their country does. I really don’t understand why is so hard to understand for Lemmy community the double standard.
You can get big fines if you don’t comply with sanctions though. And in the end Linux is an American foundation.
Linus was still an ass, though. All this drama is 100% his fault.
Agreed. I would comply (US’s courts can be very hard with you if you don’t) but you can dismiss those Russians with honor and thank them for their contribution. Then, you can consider to move the foundation to a more free environment (Switzerland, Mexico, Spain,…)
Strange. In another comment just minutes ago, you were tacitly blaming Ukraine for being invaded, Kevinovich from Florida Oblast.
You can blame ukraine for being invaded and also being against russian aggression. You sound like you are trying to spin the narrative
Don’t ask for logical arguments from Russians trolls
Insults apart (to Russians, Floridians and Lemmy community) , I do not blame Ukrainians for anything, specially when they are the biggest victims here. I blame the secret cabinets who decides their destiny for power, let those decisions are from Washington or Moscow, but let me tell you for sure are no from Kyiv. Now, historically, if you live close to a mayor power you do not like much (think of Ukraine or Cuba), the best is to have a strong army but never to join another distant power thinking it will save you, they will just use you.
So when Ukrainians try to push for closer alignment with the EU it’s a Washington-backed color revolution and thus is no different than Russia rolling into the literal tanks.
Like, even if you’re not a Russian troll you’re still adopting a conspiracy theory that completely ignores any agency the Ukrainian people have.
Important context and a good decision
Some people would disagree with you https://lwn.net/Articles/995294/
Your own link 1) does not attest to that and 2) has a comment replying to it directly contradicting what it’s saying in the first place.
That would’ve been great for them to clarify earlier XD
Well, this is The Register. Not exactly a paragon of stellar reporting here.
No, this is on Linus and the Linux Foundation
RIGHT?? I was so disappointed until I learned that bit of context. Even the original article I read about it didn’t mention it
That would’ve generated fewer clicks. Sensationalism is always more profitable.
You have to be arguing in bad faith if you’re trying to say “citizens of nation shouldn’t be responsible for their nation”
The open source benefit is not that they can directly impact it, it’s that their government can’t
That’s a dick move
To directly quote Linus:
Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about.
It’s entirely clear why the change was done, it’s not getting reverted, and using multiple random anonymous accounts to try to “grass root” it by Russian troll factories isn’t going to change anything.
And FYI for the actual innocent bystanders who aren’t troll farm accounts - the “various compliance requirements” are not just a US thing.
If you haven’t heard of Russian sanctions yet, you should try to read the news some day. And by “news”, I don’t mean Russian state-sponsored spam.
As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call brains. I’m Finnish. Did you think I’d be supporting Russian aggression? Apparently it’s not just lack of real news, it’s lack of history knowledge too.
"Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about.
It’s entirely clear why the change was done, it’s not getting reverted, and using multiple random anonymous accounts to try to “grass root” it by Russian troll factories isn’t going to change anything.
And FYI for the actual innocent bystanders who aren’t troll farm accounts - the “various compliance requirements” are not just a US thing.
If you haven’t heard of Russian sanctions yet, you should try to read the news some day. And by “news”, I don’t mean Russian state-sponsored spam.
As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call brains. I’m Finnish. Did you think I’d be supporting Russian aggression? Apparently it’s not just lack of real news, it’s lack of history knowledge too."
fuck yes. fuck russia. fuck russians.
How is this keeping to open source philosophies in any way?
“No, you can’t work on this, you’re Russian.”
I don’t support the Russian Government or its actions in any way, but these devs are probably not part of it. They maintain drivers for fucking ASUS hardware.
Because there are both US and EU laws preventing code from countries deemed a threat. Torvalds is paid by the Ameircan Linux Foundation, which has to work under US law and he himself is an EU citizen. Also a lot of other developers are from those countries and if they do not comply, they could get into some pretty bad legal trouble.
So it pretty much boils down to kick out the Russians or kick out all US and EU citizens and well we see Linus choice.
risc-v saw this coming a while ago and moved to Switzerland to avoid it.
Switzerland is being routinely strong-armed these days.
😯🤔 maybe I should look that up, where exactly 😂would be fun to work on RISC-V
You can work on RISC-V wherever you are, just post your patches publicly so anyone can get them, regardless of their jurisdiction.
Yea, just checked their job board, most is remote anyway 😂
And it’s also FOSS, so there’s nothing stopping you from working on it w/o officially working for them.
That’s the start, of course. One could always play good cop, bad cop: “I have to do this to comply with the law, sorry, there’s nothing else I can do.” What Linus has done here is play bad cop, bad cop: “the law says I have to obey sanctions, and by the way I support the sanctions and this move anyway.”
He didn’t banned the Russians when the war started, he could, and probably wanted, but didn’t so what’s your point?
Do you also know Finland is next to russia and it does not have to be US influence for someone like Linus to know Russian gov can pressure developers? This change removes code commit not the contribution rights.
This has nothing to do with open source. If Russians want to work on the Linux kernel, they’re absolutely free to do so, because the source code is free and open source. What they are being restricted from is getting their changes submitted to the normal Linux foundation trees. FOSS doesn’t mean you’re entitled to have the maintainer of a project look at your patches, it means you can use the software however you want.
And yeah, it makes me sad that Russian kernel maintainers are being excluded. That doesn’t mean it’s a violation of open source philosophies (a maintainer can exclude anyone they want for any reason), it just means it’s an unfortunate policy due to international sanctions.
Russians aren’t restricted from getting their changes submitted, they just can’t be maintainers. This means that they need another maintainer to approve their changes, just like if you or me were to submit a change. A lot of people seem to be misunderstanding what actually happened.
I actually just emailed RMS about this and I’m genuinely curious what he says. If anyone else is interested, I’ll ask if he’s fine with me sharing some of the response.
Just what we need. The opinions of someone who thinks having sex with children is a good thing.
He never said that. I agree he was more skeptical than I’d like, but he eventually was informed and apologized.
You are mistaken:
“The nominee is quoted as saying that if the choice of a sexual partner were protected by the Constitution, ‘prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality, possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia’ also would be. He is probably mistaken, legally–but that is unfortunate. All of these acts should be legal as long as no one is coerced. They are illegal only because of prejudice and narrowmindedness.”
RMS on June 28th, 2003
"I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren’t voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing. "
RMS on June 5th, 2006
"There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that willing participation in pedophilia hurts children.
RMS on Jan 4th, 2013
None of those say it is good. I disagree with him, he also disagrees with him and apologized for saying that. But that is very different from saying its good. I don’t think alcohol is good, I also don’t think it should be illegal.
None of those say it is good
Huh?
He said it’s a shame that paedophilia is outlawed and that it was narrow-mindedness that made it so.
He said it’s untrue that having sex with children harms them.
And yeah, he later apologised and said he doesn’t believe it anymore… 2 days after his job became on the line.
Ask yourself this:
A man has been publicly championing raping children for decades. Publicly. He firmly believes he should have the right to fuck children.
News media hears about this, and now his job seems untenable.
All of a sudden, the man claimed changed his mind, that he’s completely reversed his opinion (that he held for decades and publicly shouted to the world). In just 2 days, he’s gone from thinking it’s a tragedy that you can’t fuck children, to thinking fucking a child is bad.
Do you believe him? Or do you think he’s just saying anything he can to try to keep his job?
I don’t think alcohol is good, I also don’t think it should be illegal.
There’s a big difference between “it’s unfortunate that adults can’t fuck children, it really should be legalised. People against fucking toddlers are just bigots” and “well I don’t like alcohol, but I think it should be legal”
How you just equated raping a child and drinking a glass of wine is beyond me. Wow.
Oh yes, an update would be really interesting! (Even though I agree with @[email protected] in all points.)
My opinion on this whole topic: I don’t like the decision, a Free Software project should only prevent people from contributing in very rare occasions (e.g. having actively tried to sabotage the project). I don’t think this was the case, because I presume that the Linux Foundation was forced by the U.S. government to kick the maintainers out. The should’ve also communicated more clearly to prevent the confusion. (Russian trolls will cry out no matter how they phrased that.)
Edit: Depending on their power as a maintainer, they might be hired by intelligence and forced to just wave a backdoor through. With the Russian government waging a hybrid war against the U.S. and Europe, this poses a real problem.
Another Edit: @[email protected] mentioned that apart from Russia, the U.S., Israel and China also have a very well funded intelligence service. So banning Russian maintainers because of a potential backdoor when there are American maintainers (which could be agents) as well? I don’t think it makes sense, but unfortunately the Linux Foundation won’t be able to resist the “complience requirements”.
I think given the current political situation this is the right call. No one knows what the Russian government might compel otherwise innocent devs to do.
That said, we (and I mean society, not any particular individual) should be mindful that we don’t slip into bigotry.
The current ceo of usa is supporting a genocide in gaza and the former ceo is a fascist. Does the same logic apply here?
I’ve worked side by side with RU devs who were both personable and damned competent. Never were their tech skills in doubt, and I retain quite a bit of respect for those individuals.
I’d not do the same today explicitly because of the political and compliance implications. It’s unfortunate, but necessary.
Again, with open software that is not necessary… If we get to believe that argument, those potential “FSB” coders would be the ones who would notice if the CIA was trying to place a back door in the kernel too. Open Software is OPEN!!
Would they? The XZ utils backdoor was only discovered by what can only be described as an insanely attentive developer who happened to be testing something unrelated and who happened to notice a small increase in the startup time of the library, and was curious enough to go and figure out why.
Open does not mean “can’t be backdoored”.
Can you explain me why Linux waited till the very last moment of the Executive Order 14071’s grace period (the order is from April 2022!) to apply it? Obviously he trusted those people, or the verification system of the open system! Imagine you don’t like a political party for bad… fair enough, so you ban their representatives from voting table… don’t you think, that incentivizes the other party committing fraud? In these open system things, the more eyes the better, I don’t care if commies, libertarians, ultra-right or whatever, the diversity is what keep it in check…
Slow walking compliance is normal. It keeps assets liquid and processes & people in place as long as possible before making changes. It also prevents the cost of changing back and forth if a new rule is struck down before its final date.
What will happen often is that a compliant procedure will be developed as soon as possible, but no changes will be made until absolutely necessary. That gives the organization maximum time to figure out other routes of compliance, fight the rule and continue at pace before they change.
This coming from the brilliant mind who thinks Russia’s neighbors are better off neutral toward it and victim blames countries like Ukraine which have been invaded by it, routinely spreads pro-Russia propaganda on Lemmy and nothing else, and has suspiciously Russian-y broken English.
Edit: Also, as other commenters have correctly pointed out, Russian citizens being allowed to be maintainers of the Linux project has fuck-all to do with the actual principles of open software as defined either by the FSF or the OSI.
Ukraine was invaded after a coup (when elections was 11 months away and polls say would turned pro-western anyways in their typical rotation). Yes Finland, Switzerland and Austria were non NATO are prospered fine, I would say even thrived. Same as Singapore with China. Of course, you can take the Cuba route and bring the nuclear missiles from Moscow, surely US will leave it fine. Side the side you want, keep a strong army but don’t join any military alliance seems to be the recipe for success when you leave close to a power you don’t like.
Shut the fuck up.
intelligent counterargument… and ten upvotes. cool; disappointment a Lemmy community; seem just like another echo chamber as X.
I hope it makes your opinion unwelcome, come back when you grow up as a part of normal member of society.
Because noone actually added a pro-western opinion but rather rebutted your pro-russian tankie bs. And by bs i mean complete nonsense that fails to see a simple comparison of how west does not interfere and expand it’s territory on behalf of it’s neighbors through lies, sabotage and military, but russia does and has for decades. That’s the main reason why it’s neighbours have to spend on military instead of society growth, and now they have realised the tolerance or staying neutral does not work on country that has not grown as a respectful and healthy society member which is proven exactly by your comments.
Pretty sure you won’t be even bothered to read the whole comment and think it’s “huinya”, i know it because i live in a neighbouring country and i know it first hand it sucks to live next to russia.
Your entire comment is a bunch of bullshit and straight up propaganda.
I would say even thrived
Finland has to keep one of the largest militaries on Earth solely due to their proximity with Russia, and they barely fended them off in the 1940s. Ukraine was the last straw, and they decided to join NATO. Switzerland??? Are you fucking high? Go look at a fucking map and see where Switzerland is, holy shit. Austria is once again fully enclosed by NATO countries except a small border with Switzerland to the west.
I’m not even addressing the rest of the comment; citing Switzerland alone was too stupid for your worthless, propagandist drivel to be worth my time.
Usually countries have to decide between butter and guns (eco 101). Well, such “largest militaries on Earth” had it both! Like Switzerland, you do have to keep a strong military to dissuade, but aligning to a alliance when you are the spearhead is bad. Switzerland had made an alliance with France or Germany a century ago, would not have ended non invaded, 100% guaranteed.
i wish there was more we could do to help russians topple their dictatorship
Necessary for what?
Not gonna lie, this is kinda a refutation of the whole open source model. I was led to believe that it shouldn’t matter who writes the code, as long the code is able to be interrogated/corrected.
Removing people from CREDITS looks like someone should have been mindful before acting.
They were removed from MAINTAINERS, which is what identifies the people responsible for maintaining a piece of code, a subsystem of Linux, not the credits, which is encoded in the git commit history.
Isn’t most of Linux open source?
All of it is. But its still possible to sneak backdoors into Foss software (though magnitudes harder). See xz.
If you can sneak backdoors, removing one side, would not make the other side, even if you consider the good one, be even more able to sneak one too. In election tables, what guarantees transparency is everyone represented at the table, not banning one side.
But NSLs force them to do it, and prevent them from talking about it. This is a bigger risk than something like the xz attack, because the barrier of entry is so low
Linux Fundarion is based in America. It needs to follow its rules and politics. I guess a lot of things will happen after this. As something so important for open technology like It , should be based in a more open, mor asvanced in laws and neutral territory.
Linus is from Finland. Not hard to remember reasons for aversion to Russian propaganda for anyone raised near it.
Blanketing the Linux Foundation as American based kind of sounds like you’re a Russian troll.
You would think someone from Finland would know better that, when you are so close to a power you don’t like, the best way to prosper is by keeping neutrality,… look at Finland in the 60s-00s, Singapore, Austria… or you choose to pick the Ukrainian, Filipino and Cuban path…
That worked out so well for Ukraine didn’t it.
Get out of here you Russian troll
Lol, nope, that’s a complete bs
Calling out others as a Russian troll sound like a technique to shift scrutiny onto others.
Exactly what a Russian troll would do!
Heheheh paranoia fue. And no, just read on internet where is based. California so be precise
This is hardly the first time the core Linux code stack has been forked and independently developed. Seems like this is going to invite a Russia-specific development environment that just pulls in updates from the main branch and adds in Russia-internal development (which will likely then be copied by non-Russians and backloaded into the core Linux stack under someone else’s name, because why waste good dev work?)
But the argument appears to be anyone with a Russian-sounding name is getting removed from the core development team, until they can prove to the American team that they aren’t… spooks, I guess? Also
The driver code to which the dropped maintainers contributed remains in place.
So this isn’t such a high security risk that the code is being pulled (presumably because its been vetted and appears beyond repute). This is purely a CYA move to eliminate veterans on the team because they were forthright about their identities.
should be based in a more open, mor asvanced in laws and neutral territory.
Its not clear how a policy of booting people based on their surnames accomplishes this.
I could mention all the forks that Linux currently has, please.
With that logic, the US contributes should be expelled too. We have more examples of US folks being served NSLs than Russians.
Lol because russian is so open about who they give nsl to. Or they just poison/defenestrate them
Its the same in the US
Looking at the downvotes, signals some true on you comment!
All that says is that there’s a lot of people ITT who don’t know what a downvote button is for, and the mods aren’t doing their job
Nah, you just butthurt that your putinsucking goes unappreciated
Its an American-based venture, owned and operated by American businessmen. They’re not going to burn their own guys, even if some of them are spooks (no evidence that anyone on the core dev team is a spook, but crazy to think the FSB would have people in and the Five-Eyes guys wouldn’t).
I do wonder how long until we start seeing mainstream code-forks that span geopolitical regions. Will we have a Digital Iron Curtain, with BRICS countries doing their own FOSS branches independently of NATO block?
Many European companies canceled contracts with US companies because of the NSL risk. I don’t think the devide is NATO. The US laws are a threat to security and privacy everywhere
Many European companies canceled contracts with US companies because of the NSL risk.
I’d be curious to see who they were. My guess is that they are relatively small and easy enough to circumvent without breaking ties with America as a whole.
But I’m not seeing Exxon, Boeing, or Microsoft pull out of Europe, despite being deeply embedded with sanctioned regimes.
Biden literally introduced legislation to prevent it because it was a mass exodus. The companies you mentioned are US companies. I mean EU companies won’t use US MSPs because of the risk
What current situation?
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Is so hard to believe Open Source should be open? If there were a malicious intent, others would have been able to detect it in no time… because it is ‘open’! If the open system works, it should not matter there are CIA or FSB, commies or libertarians “infiltrated” making the code.
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If those Russians had been in that position is because their contributions have been stellar, otherwise they would never have gotten there. Their contribution and effort has been robbed from them just because they mothers give them birth in the wrong coordinates.
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Linus is a god for many of us… with human traits though… His Finland, although historically robbed by Russia, achieved its highest splendor during the decades of neutrality, not by fiercely antagonizing one or the other power… same as Switzerland, Ireland, Austria and Singapore.
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All this started with a US law so he has to comply with. However, instead of those unhelpful comments, he should say that in open software it is unwarranted… not to mention countries can get sanctions for their actions, but not civilians that cannot choose where they are born.
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If we are to believe that Moscow is trying to put something into the kernel “undetected”… gosh, what an organization based on the US with a so pro-establishment leader may be doing so? For real, now I am starting having my doubts on the kernel!
My very fist post on lemmy and already see the upvote downvote game… When someone votes should be demanded a public reason, no?
What you should have posted was nothing.
Linus is a god for many of us… with human traits though… His Finland, although historically robbed by Russia, achieved its highest splendor during the decades of neutrality, not by fiercely antagonizing one or the other power… same as Switzerland, Ireland, Austria and Singapore.
Ukraine was neutral before 2014, that didn’t help avoid an invasion. Not to mention they occupied Moldova and Georgia before that too.
They have not been able to attack the Baltic nations or Poland because they joined NATO.
Neutrality word salad is only for the ignorant or those who support russian imperialism.
Ukraine was awkwardly neutral (it was more a pro-anti rotation govs) before 2014 true… why US senators and Nuland ended there fanning a coup and ended handpicking the leaders? The invasion happened in 2022, 4 month after Russia send a letter to NATO to keep off Ukraine. Russia, as imperialistic aims it may have, have no intentions, not capabilities of invading Poland, Lithuania or Finland. Finland was no NATO and not even the USSR touch it. Mexico’s since Obrador is highly critical of the US, but wisely, choose to calm things down rather than going the Cuban and Venezuela route… see what works best. Is it fair? No, but one has to be pragmatic.
Finland was no NATO and not even the USSR touch it.
If you omit the middle of the 20th century, sure. The Finns declared independence from the Russian Empire in 1917, under the approval of the Bolsheviks’ Declaration of the Rights of the Peoples of Russia. In 1934, Finland and the USSR reaffirmed a non-aggression pact for 10 years. In 1939, after penning a deal with Hitler to carve up Europe between the Nazis and the USSR, Stalin demanded that Finland, who had maintained a stance of neutrality, cede territory for military use and, when they refused, ordered shelling and invasion.
Neutrality or even open trade did not prevent the USSR from invading then, not did handing over nukes save Ukraine from invasion in 2014.
Russia, as imperialistic aims it may have, have no intentions, not capabilities of invading Poland, Lithuania or Finland.
Hey, I’ve heard that before in 2014. You know the three day invasion?
And because I really think you are a troll: the best part is, NATO has yet to set foot on the ground, while Russia is running to rogue countries like NK.
Besides, Ukraine being “awkwardly neutral” did not stop Putler from invading, did it?
You use a lot of words, but a foundation of your “facts” are blatantly missing.
Putin invaded after the US fomented coup. before that, Ukraine just kept alternating pro-western pro-russian governments, the coup was done to prevent that alternation (even though the pro-western was going to win in 11 months, but that was not enough for US). Russia, could just not see being kick out of Crimea by the US with a coup. Imagine Cuba gets the capability of kicking US out of Guantanamo… US would just declare the Guantanamo “lease” as US land in a second. Lets not mention the vital or historical importance Crimea has for Russia that Guantanamo does not for the US.
Dude. You are ranting.
Find help.
I am ranting! Linux should be open for all, we should not have fallen this is Pro-Western, or Pro-China, or this or that, it should remain OPEN! We’d just caused Linux to be viewed as the payment messaging SWIFT and a sided institution so others will look for an alternative. Yes, today, after 2 decades, I am a bit Linux fan. I understand Linus had to apply the Presidential Order, he could just point his disagreement and even proposing the foundation to move to Switzerland or Mexico, but he did not; he did not offer his support for the people he dismissed after years and years of working for him.
You’re definitely speaking to someone who’s being paid 15 rubles a comment to post here.
Finland was no NATO and not even the USSR touch it Yes because they had one of the largest regional armies. And why do you think that is? Maybe because they already had Russia invade twice within living memory
Worth noting that they stayed out of Nato until it was obvious their lunatic neighbour with “imperialistic aims” wouldn’t stop invading others…
you lost me at this
If there were a malicious intent, others would have been able to detect it in no time… because it is ‘open’!
not sure if troll or just really ignorant.
Executive Order 14071 is more than 2 yrs old… Linus waited till the grace deadline (in 1 week) to apply it, obviously he found it non necessary all this time and he trusted those Russians until the grace period expires. No, not so ignorant, nor a troll. And yes, Open systems is easy to detect maliciousness, better yet, you can pin point who contributed what for everyone to see.
blah blah blah. you’re obviously trolling or have no idea how FOSS is developed.
if FOSS is so secure then why is it a popular attack vector for Russian and Chinese espionage?
just because something is public doesn’t make it inherently more secure, I’m honestly disappointed in your dangerous and clearly flawed take on FOSS.
FOSS is great, but it’s really no more and no less secure than closed sourced software.
So why Linus waited 2 years and a half to apply the Order until the grace period expires? He obviously does not like Russia, but he did trust those individuals (or system)!
I don’t care and I’m not going to argue the point you want to make because it’s frivolous.
he’s the maintainer, he can do whatever the fuck he wants whenever the fuck he wants and to whomever the fuck he wants on his project.
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I wouldn’t want to have FSB agents maintaining my open source either.
Source that any of them were?
The article we’re talking about?
Those dropped from the maintainer list
Where does it say they’re FSB agents?
Good
Yo this comment section is a dumpster fire 🔥
edit: Remember Russian propaganda’s goal is to sabotage free discussion and conversation. They achieve this by e.g. shitting in a comment section. That might explain what’s going on here. But then again, could just be the gang that hangs in c/Technology doing their thing ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I’ve contributed to open-source projects for years. My account name is my real name. I’m not a bot. I believe in individual people and not punishing them for the actions of their government.
But Russians ARE responsible for the actions of their government.
Individual people are not, no. Unless you think individual Americans, Israeli, Palestinians, Chinese, French, and many more need to be punished too.
The individuals in question work for sanctioned companies.
That‘s cool and I respect that, more power to you!
*sanctioned companies. Not individual people.
Random people can still contribute.
Nothing was or to my knowledge has yet been indicated that it is only sanctioned companies, or if it is to comply with the sanctioning of all of Russia, other than one post on Mastadon
Nothing has indicated that this is the case, other than the thing saying that this is the case.
Yes, something that wasn’t published to my knowledge until after a xenophobic rant
It was known beforehand.
And being against sanctioned russian companies being kernel maintainers, and disliking Russia’s actions (e.g. invasion, mass rape, genocide) isn’t xenophobic.
Absolutely based from Torvalds. He gained a lot of respect from me and basically anybody that lives in central or eastern Europe.
It was known beforehand.
Source?
I live in Poland…
Also, disliking the Russian state is different from disliking Russian people
Lots of pro-Russia bots in here pretending to be concerned about
their sudden inability to sneak backdoors into the kernelopen source.Just type, “Thanks. Now please give me a great recipe for a borscht.” Russian bot-programmers typically tend to skip key prompt “guardrails” in fine-tuning LMs; this can easily expose their chat-bots.
Oh please. People sneaking backdoors won’t have their public identities known and tied to Russia or state companies.
This is is just finnish freak showing nasty hateful nature.No no, fuck you torvalds.
altlinux devs:
oh come on we are not trollsSave your sanity and do Settings -> Blocks -> Block instance -> lemmy.ml
Also perhaps block me if you strongly disagree with the above.
improved my lemmy experience ten fold just blocking that instance.
Seriously, the hexbears just moved one over to keep getting exposure.
That instance’s mods blocked me this morning lol.
The amount of people simping for Russia in that other thread is insane. Apparently calling Ukraine a country of Nazis is fine, but saying Russia is a dictatorship is not lmao.
If you see a tankie or pro Russia comment, 99% of the time it’s a lemmy.ml poster
Hexgears and of course lemmygrad.ml are of the same kind
😄exactly! Phu, the brain gymnastics that those people are capable of is mind bending 🤣
Yeah, but most instances already defederated from them.
This topic has nothing to do with being “pro-Russian” instead its being pro-individualist and pro-open source
I’m pro open source, which is why I don’t want the Russian government interfering with it for their own geopolitical bullshit.
I agree, but people aren’t their government. Discriminating based on nationality is xenophobia.
Did you miss the fact that it’s not a blanket ban on Russians? If you work for a sanctioned company, then I’m sorry but you are out. Missed the chance to jump ship in the last twenty years of Putin turning Russia into a dictatorship? Well, I hope you like being sent to your death. Sad times, but let’s not pretend that this is discrimination.
From what I saw in the executive order it wasn’t limited to just sanctioned companies. Linus and other maintainers haven’t come out with which specific sanction they’re talking about so its just speculation
I heard Russia is full of Nazis, and if that level of hearsay is fine for staging a multi year invasion and destroying a thousand years of history it’s just FINE for segregating bad-actors and persona non grata.
Can’t deal with it? Move to a less shitty company not sanctioned by scumbags. Or even a less tribal country 🤷
I heard Russia is full of Nazis, and if that level of hearsay is fine for staging a multi year invasion and destroying a thousand years of history it’s just FINE for segregating bad-actors and persona non grata.
Linux maintainers aren’t invading Ukraine
Can we really be sure?
Banning contributions from sanctioned russian companies is not xenophobia. Pipe down.
Can we see where someone is hosting a Lemmy (domain, insnace, thing?)
Well I doubt it’s Mali.
https://check-host.net/ip-info?host=lemmy.ml
France. Maybe. It’s mostly guesswork, but gives the same location for hexbear.net.
It’s mostly cosplay commies rather than actual Russians.
Yea I figured it’s just a bunch of middle class kids who have the privilege of being online and complain. Also fuck Hexbear…all my homies hate Hexbear.
I guess, you got to check IP and see what country it belongs to, but if they use a VPS or VPN or both, you can’t really know where the person who manages the instance lives / operates.
Sometimes it is posted on the instance front page or about page.
yep I got banned from there for simply stating that ukraine has a right to defend themselves after Modi called for “peace”. Apparently absolute pacifism is only required from one side.
I would encourage that, but if your instance doesn’t defederate them you may have to go a bit farther since you’ll still get replies from lemmy.ml users, as users are not blocked as part of this functionality. And that is by design, it’s not meant to act as a replacement or alternative to defederation, it’s meant to act as an alternative to blocking all communities on an instance.
This is about open-source being open. I’m a very non-tankie, and I think this is bad- though a bit better if its only people working for sanctioned companies.
Go look at the principles of open-source or free software as defined either by the OSI and the FSF and then come back when you find the one that says that Linus needs to violate US sanctions to keep employees of Russian companies in trusted roles within his project.
Also, what does this have to do with being tankie or not? Modern Russia is very openly not communist.
.ml is full of tankies. Also, nothing in open-source principles say that to my knowledge. Am I not allowed to have beliefs not explicitly defined by the OSI?
The OSI’s definition of open-source software is the de facto definition used by most people, and for most of the remaining people that don’t, they (mistakenly, because they define “free” software, not “open-source”) defer to the FSF’s defintion of free software.
So yes, you should be explicitly noting that what you define as “open” has nothing at all to do with the far-and-away most widely used definition(s) of “open-source”.
Yes, and I said I want open-source to be open. As in not just open-source, but also open to all. That is my personal moral value, and I advocate for that. What the OSI supports has nothing to do with that.
I want a lot of things too, but what I want most of all is to live in a society governed by the rule of law. There are no absolute rights - limiting the freedoms of people who are complicit in crimes or enable them is how we protect the rights of everyone else. Simple as.
Limiting the freedoms of innocent people who happen to live in a country doesn’t protect the rights of others.
This is about open-source being open.
tell that to the mods of [email protected] who ban you for disagreeing with them.
Yesterday I accidentally commented in .ml and mentioned that voting third party in our current voting system is playing with fire to get a worse candidate in office. I was told I must therefore start a grassroots movement for ranked choice voting, because apparently I can’t have an opinion without a movement.
Normally I let a few downvotes get under my skin more than I care to admit, but in this setting it was kind of a badge of honor. Honestly it was kind of “fun” to see what people were saying.
I hope people do not do that and take into account this campaign against lemmy.ml. I am aware of the accusations against the admins of this instance, but I practically never see here this kind of brigading, campaigning against whole instances like lemmy.world. Sure, I myself did make a bad comment or two about lemmy.world out of >800 comments, but that’s normal. I think the fair thing to do, is to respond in the same scale (i. e. blocking specific users) instead of going all ballistic with instance blocks.
I’d also like an option to just block/hide the instance part of user names. I don’t like what this bit of information is doing to discussions in Lemmy.
I think the fair thing to do, is to respond in the same scale (i. e. blocking specific users) instead of going all ballistic with instance blocks.
it’s not just random users, the mods of larger communities like [email protected] will delete your comments and ban you simply for disagreeing with them.
I don’t like what this bit of information is doing to discussions in Lemmy.
Cool. That’s fine that you don’t like it. However people have a right to not see what they don’t want to see. If they decide that means it’s lemmy.ml, then that’s their right.
Just like I have a right to not peer with lemmy.ml if I didn’t want to.
Hell I have a hard block on ALL Russian and Chinese IP addresses. Not because I have something against the people. But I just don’t want to deal with the headache of accepting traffic from those countries.
Just because some (or even a majority) of the people on lemmy.ml are fine to interact with doesn’t mean that there isn’t contention from other users and admins on that instance.
I think we agree on everything. You do you.
You could also just move instances if you don’t want to be blocked. Hexbear, and ML are hot spots for the worst kind of people.
I know I can. Being blocked is something I do not have any issues with. My comment was merely my point of view. If someone is being actively bothered by the admins of the instance I’m in, it’s completely fair to block it. However, to block whole instances for ideological differences is kind of immature.
Some of us are actually normal
I see you, hang in there buddy!
Yeah, when I created my Lemmy account I had to choose an instance before knowing anything about Lemmy yet. And .ml seemed like the default one to choose, given https://join-lemmy.org/ told me it is ran by the devs.
Oh well.
Similar story here tbh.
Doesn’t help if the admins think you’re not. Which is why I had to relocate a community because of admin content meddling and instance users shitstorming in a waterglass.
I love it here as well 😁
Save your sanity and do Settings -> Blocks -> Block instance -> lemmy.ml
I approve this comment.
Please stip blocking people, please stip talking about blocking everyone
Yes, i gettit. Different opinions can be annoying but if we don’t all participate in. A similar environment.we all just disappear in our little echo chamber pillars, unable to hear or understand the others, which leads to more extremist opinions on all sides.
We NEED to hear others, if not just for the fact that others may NEED to hear our voices too.
I honestly this echo chamber crap is squarely caused by the Internet, the tool that promised to bring humanity together, and instead ended up dividing us more than ever because anyone hearing an opinion they don’t like immediately bans that voice. Can’t have anyone disagreeing now!
I get it, there are some stupid opinions out there, dangerous ones too, but the more we ban them, the more they will only be able to talk eachother into extremism and the WILL be back, with more people, and more extremist opinions.
FFS, we need to learn to start listening to each other again. An entire generation has grown up with “if you don’t like to hear that opinion, just have it banned”, and it’s not helpful.
Early Internet was a wild west crazy town for sure, loads of assholes lurking around, but it was better than what we have now, where EVERY space is curated and hawkishly guarded against those that might even look in the wrong direction.
I’ve spent quite some time on right wing subs back in the day in Reddit, discussing whatever topic with hard line conservative right wing types and when you do you find out they are human too, usually with a lot of fears, and you actually get to understand why they feel the way they feel, and you can get them to understand that yeah, maybe it’s not the best solution. You find common ground and got somebody a little closer to the light. Yes, I’m a big fan of that black guy (forgot his name) who goes out to talk to KKK members to convert them away from the KKK.
I know this isn’t for everyone, but a lot of us can and should step up and start talking, start listening. I’m not saying st all you should agree with a neo nazi, but you can listen to him or her, understand where they’re coming from, and have them do the same. Once you both see the humanity in each other you can actually make everyone be a little better.
It’s better than the alternative where the inevitable outcome is that we’ll start having civil wars everywhere and just kill those we oppose.
I understand what you mean but I’ll have to disagree. Letting people just do anything like that is like not charging criminals for the crimes they’ve commited. It could make people act similarly.
No, actually…
… but seriously, the Internet is so different from real life that no comparisons make sense. Opinions that would have been uttered by the craziest village idiots in a local gas station 30 years ago are now distributed and magnified by the social media machine. In the past, you could see with your eyes, hear with your ears and even smell with your nose which people you really really should not listen to, but in the internet, those people look exactly like you and me.
And it’s all sapping your energy and time, the most precious resources you have.
That’s why blocking is fine, even whole instances if they are shown to be crazy enough.
Also, I would like to point out that the creators of the clients for the first community platforms (usenet) recognized early on the importance of shutting people up (killfiles).
I’m surprised to find somebody with some sense around here.
I have never used a block or mute feature on any site or any service in all my life. It is wild to me that people today actually use those features, let alone to constrict the ideas that they allow themselves to be exposed to.
I conducted a fun little experiment over at /c/[email protected] in which I posited the question: “If it were possible, how would you deprogram an extreme conservative?”. I then waited twenty hours before posting “If it were possible, how would you deprogram an extreme progressive?”. The difference in reception between the questions exposed the intense lib-left bias that is pervasive on Lemmy, a byproduct of people constantly walling themselves into self-made echochambers.
We NEED to hear others, if not just for the fact that others may NEED to hear our voices too.
We have tried engaging in good faith, but they don’t WANT to hear us. For example, the mods of [email protected] (specifically https://lemmy.ml/u/OurToothbrush) ban for people for simply disagreeing with them. Happened to me and I’ve seen multiple others.
Absolutely based as fuck as usual.
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