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Sigh, that was an eye-opening depresing read… thanks for sharing!
What is TPOT
Somehow that avoids everything that actually makes TPOT TPOT to me (except the links to Rationalism and EA, but then you have to be aware of those).
Like the (scientific) racism.
The author explains in the thread and has links to further info.
Oh no, fascists won the election! Oh no, Musk is a fascist! We need to leave X! Where should we go? Mastodon? Too complicated! BS, which is financed by fascists? Count me in! 😭
im out of the loop. who are the faccists that financed bluesky?
They’re probably referring to the fact it was founded by Jack Dorsey, who has since abandoned it because the other people in charge refused to let it be as bat-guano as he wanted.
Ironically, he left Twitter for the same reason. Bluesky was supposed to be his own version, in his image, and yet rational minds prevailed there at pretty much the same time Musk started pushing Twitter in the direction Dorsey had wanted all along.
I’ve started removing trash sites. I blocked twatter and reddit at my router.
Or… or… hear me out… everyone comes to lemmy?
You mean Mastodon?
Hopefully not. This place is worse than Reddit.
Then why are you here instead of at Reddit?
On principle, personally. I was done with Reddit after the API shit.
Yup. I’m also not super happy with Lemmy, but I’m too stubborn to go back. Meanwhile, I’m building my own rendition of Reddit, which will probably have the same problems, but at least I’m making an effort.
If something genuinely good shows up, I’ll go there. But BlueSky ain’t it, so here I stay.
I see BlueSkey as different than Lemmy. In my mind, Twitter = BlueSky and Mastodon and Reddit = Lemmy and Kbin (if that’s even still around).
Not even remotely the same kind of platform
Mastodon
Has an aggressively unpleasant user base and nowhere near the blocking functionality that Bluesky has, which is essentially mandatory now for minorities on the internet. Not to mention an onboarding process that can confuse the tech literate, much less the average person.
This comment is not an invitation to talk about how actually it’s very simple and intuitive if you follow a 20 step process that relies on detailed knowledge of how federation works.
Those people will either learn one day or they will end up in the same vicious cycle over and over again for the rest of their lives until they do learn the lesson or die. The only reason the blue sky process is better is because, at least currently, they only have the one server. If it ever actually federates, like it’s supposed to, then that point is completely moot. Because then they won’t know how to sign up for blue sky either.
Oh no, not the same thing I’ve been doing since the mid 90s! I might die if I migrate sites again! Or something.
Making a social network only usable by around 5% of the population and then complaining when only 5% of the population shows up is a pretty indicative attitude of why so many FOSS projects struggle to get widespread adoption. You don’t get to choose how tech literate the population is. You either make it more useable or you accept a limited audience.
Clown take. “People should just get smart!”
95% of all American adults cannot use search functions in email.
I think it’s easy to understand Mastodon, or any federated service, using a metaphor for a country or large place, where you can say “I want to move to X country” but then you have to actually pick a place IN that country to live, like a specific city or rural district. Once you decide on your instance, it’s really not that hard
As a progressive worldly usa person which instance should I choose?
Can or should it be tied to my lemmy.world instance somehow?
Thx
Some recommendations for lefty mastodon instances, all are vaguely tech themed, but that comes with the territory. That being said none of these instances feel like weird places to not be a techy person, the conversations and interactions on these instances occupy as diverse a range as anywhere else.
Your lemmy instance lemmy.world is under the umbrella of https://fedihosting.foundation/ which oversees both lemmy.world and the mastodon instance mastodon.world
Can or should it be tied to my lemmy.world instance somehow?
Please do whatever helps you express your identity/identities of your self best! You can always link between accounts in the public account bios.
I will offer you a suggestion though, if you already made the account [email protected] why not make [email protected], link between them and perhaps indicate if you use one or the other account more. You might as well, people will still recognize you immediately on your mastodon account but you might find it nice to be able to interact with the fediverse through the perspective of mastodon/microblogging.
Then make another account on a different mastodon instance that looks cool too, go wild, do whatever fits your fancy, the consequences to making an account and never using it are small enough that except in edge cases (you took up a slot on a server with a limited number of registrations or something) nobody is going to care!
p.s. Notice all of these mastodon instances have thoughtful moderation policies that place an emphasis on protecting and centering vulnerable voices over valuing the “right” of socio-economically advantaged groups to spread hate speech in public. All these instances have links to the mastodon accounts of the humans who moderate those instances so you can get an idea of the human element of the moderation. How cool is that? Each place has its own slight spin on being a healthy community and you can find the place that is perfect for you!
Don’t forget the disproportionate control individual mods have over the network due to the shared defederation lists. I was on a general purpose instance which found itself defederated from a large part of the network because a mastodon.art admin had disagreement with a mod on the one I was on.
Putting aside control and anecdotes, neither of which would be fair to comment on without more context and a lengthier discussion, this breaks the email metaphor a bit, doesn’t it?
The Fediverse is just like email, where we all talk to each other, except Outlook blocked Gmail because MS and Google had a fight during a meeting so you’re gonna have to migrate to Yahoo or learn to self-host.
That’s not necessarily a criticism, I just find it funny.
You dont need to explain email so federation does not seem to be the issue here IMO. The problem is money which FLOSS projects usually don’t have. The successful ones have perhaps enough so that the devs can put food on their table, but not much else. Most of the apps are after Dayjob hobby projects. It’s hard to compete with those who have teams of paid staff.
Bsky federates. I follow several people from Mastodon.
Not only federates but can also be partially self-hosted
deleted by creator
“Never” is a strong word. API translation is a technical hurdle, but rarely an insurmountable one. If Blue Sky wanted to add an ActivityPub interface to their platform, they probably could.
This issue isn’t technical per se; it’s a matter of priorities. Blue Sky doesn’t want to federate with Mastodon/Threads, because they want users to switch to their platform.
Oh, well that’s good anyway. Is it true that they only have like one major server? Because I’ve heard that, but I haven’t looked much into them, so I’m not sure if it’s still the case or not. To my understanding, they are meant to be a federated network, but really only have the one server.
Yeah this is still true as far as I know. Honestly this is probably what allowed BS to gain a foothold; I like mastodon too but asking new users to pick a server was always going to be a source of adoption friction.
Of course it is, why would people throw millions at investing in a product and then decentralize it to the point that there weren’t any bottlenecks to apply pressure and extract a profit back out of it? It makes no sense and would be a ridiculous business strategy.
What is a good business strategy is associating your product with visions of decentralization while never truly intending to get there in practice.
Fair point. They will just grow their user base and then go all walled garden just like all the rest of the platforms. Protocols not platforms.
AFAIK that’s still the case, yes. I don’t have a Bluesky (or Threads) account so I can’t confirm.
For now. They’re still in their growth phase. If they ever become dominant and they need to make money, they’ll turn into a walled garden like every other. Everyone seems to forget that Twitter, Reddit and Facebook were also all about openness at the start
The key is how healthy atproto is outside of bluesky by then
Absolutely, I don’t trust them at all. There’s a reason I’m on Mastodon and not either of the corporate platforms. It is nice to at least be able to follow people there though, and interact with them.
I just hope federal services (like applying for a passport) don’t become Twitter-only after Trump appoints Elon as Secretary of Enshittification.
The fact that this is an actual possibility is absolutely hilarious.
The new online passport process is unbelievably good
They better not ruin it
Ooh, thanks for the reminder! Mine expires next year. Best renew it now before they fuck that up, too.
oh yah i just renewed using the new process, got my passport back in less than 2 weeks.
Narrator: they ruined it
Oof. Poor Americans. The 4 year shit show you’re going to have to put up with.
4 years if laws and constitution stay the same and are followed… first term he had people alienated into him who were at least slightly appropriated for their positions, this time people who has nothing to do with their positions are being appointed simply for being loyal to him… Let’s see if any of them won’t let him do anything drastic within 4 YEARS
It’s more than 4 years. We just crawled out of Trump inflation and now are going right back in.
Dismantling and breaking is easy. They can do a lot of that in 4 yrs. Building takes decades.
There’s also a global effect. Would Putin have ever attacked Ukraine without a Trump term? How about Israel’s taking self defense into genocide territory?
America leads by example and the last example was an impulsive 3 yo with a giant military force and a dead diplomacy department in the executive branch. There’s permissiveness in that.
Cute that you think it’ll only last for 4 years.
Nah, most people are going to live their lives and see absolutely no effect from anything done. No single administration has the ability to totally fuck up the country in the amount of time they have. That’s why you get the big swings back and forth between the two parties. Also, the news is very good at sensationalizing absolutely everything and making you think that, oh my god, it’s the end of the fucking world. What are we going to do? Run around like chickens screaming with our heads cut off and shit.
Rotflmao, you didn’t read project 2025 🤣
People seem to be down voting you…but Trump was already elected before and quickly became irrelevant after his 4 years.
He ruined plenty of people’s lives in that time, but he came and went before and one day he’ll be out of office again. The world goes on.
Well, except for the people that are dead from his actions. For example, the ~461,000 people who died from COVID due to him making every wrong decision. For those people, it doesn’t go on. Because they’re dead.
Trump was already elected before and quickly became irrelevant after his 4 years.
And who is going to be the next US President?
And who is nominating a Russian asset to be DNI?
And who is nominating a child sex trafficker to be AG?
And who is likely to nominate an antivax, anti-science lunatic with brain worms to head the dept of Health and Human Services?
And who is planning to eliminate the department of education and NOAA?
Previous administrations have done damage through incompetence and/or malice, but the plan this time is on another level. They’re going in with the goal of breaking everything.
Donna and chevron would disagree with your claim of “irrelevant”. You might not be aware, but that’s not the same thing…
No single administration has the ability to totally fuck up the country in the amount of time they have.
Women in need of reproductive health services in red states would like a word.
If you think this is the only reproductive healthcare that people are dying for lack of in the US, you have vastly overestimated your expertise of the subject matter.
Oh, I know. This is but one facet. And I am definitely not an expert.
What is wrong with you?
We know that Ukraine will be betrayed by the Trump government. A Russian victory will embolden Russia to further threaten Europe. This will also embolden China and other authoritarian states.
We also know a Trump government will stop climate action. Unfortunately, this will also signal to many other governments that they can do the same.
We also know that immense cruelties will be perpetrated such as the family separation policy of the 1st Trump presidency
But yes, if you are white, straight and middle class or rich, you’ll be able to think all is OK until such time as the authoritarian ascendancy led by China and Russia affects your own life, which might be a decade or more away.
How many people do you think would be affected by his deportation policies? I’ve heard a number of around 10 million, and that’s 3% of the population, which, while absolutely terrible, means that the other 97% isn’t going to really care.
“Stimpy, sometimes your wealth of ignorance astounds me.” – Ren Höek
Food prices will go up, not down. I think everyone cares about food prices right now.
I’m not just talking about outdoor crop picking work. A friend was laid off from a food production company this week and Trumps not even sworn in yet. You can’t make this stuff up it’s so ridiculous. So, anticipate job losses for non immigrants as well.
2/3 of the factory line is Hispanic, and the majority of that is rotating work visa people. In this way, you can pay much lower wages.
Part of it was tariff threat, no one would place orders, everyone’s on hold on the production/supply/buyer chain, waiting for January, so the income of the business dropped to zero this week and is projected to stay there through January. Again, this is food production, not bread or flour, or anything basic like that, but it’s still food.
So, with no income and the threat of loss of cheap production labor, all the American citizens were laid off this week. Whether or not the business will eventually declare bankruptcy is undecided, but that talk is definitely on the table.
Those 3% (going by your math):
Pick crops
Contribute $90 billion or more in tax for the county via sales tax.
Without those people, we have no food, and immediate inflation begins. You know, the thing everyone was bitching about that was literally caused by Trumps inaction on COVID.
This affects EVERYONE in the US.
Not to mention that the construction industry- particularly housing- just stops.
I did just get a roof put on my house. Small, local business. All the office people were white, the work crew was 100% Hispanic with one bilingual guy who front manned communication. Idk how many were work visa, but given the number of serious injuries I’ve seen from work visas falling off roofs while doing construction and such while at work, it’s not just one company.
And before you go down the path of “they’re taking ‘our’ jobs” remember that there is a shortage of skilled labor and trades right now.
Also, if a company can pay at or near minimum wage for rappelling up the side of house, would you accept that wage given the liability/injury threat?
Housing prices go up in reaction to losing cheap labor, I guarantee it.
I know the last time he was in office his immigration policies made it impossible for some people families to come over. I worked with a couple people struggling with that.
Reagan.
No single administration has the ability to totally fuck up the country in the amount of time they have.
Trump: “Hold my Diet Coke”.
Thing is, mate…fascists rarely stay inside their boarders. This is going to be the whole world’s problem in about 3 months.
Trump wants adulation, not conquest. Push come to shove you can get him out of the oval office by making him figurehead Emperor, as long as it comes with immunity he’ll accept.
On a scale of Mussolini to Hitler, he’s like 250% towards Mussolini.
Maybe for the rest of our lives, however long that is…
upside: maybe fashism will kill us all before climate does? yay?
With the fascist in power they’re going to speed up the climate destruction
So maybe the fascist will kill us with the climate
yay?
I’m glad you guys are looking at the bright side of life 😊
Tell me about it.
🎶 Always look at the bright side of life… 🎶
I’d rather eat rats and survive inside a hole in the ground in 45⁰C weather than die in a war, but that’s just me.
Hey, no eating cute rats
Cute rats are more delicious because they are healthier!
international us policy is very similar between republicans and democrats. you guys are already the whole worlds problem. 🌍🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀
im sorry but trump will be your problem. until the empire decides to turn up the violence dial again that is, which is something both parties do sometimes.
You mean head of DOGE? Because we live in the timeline where a terminally online edgelord with the brain of a 14yo and the body of a 54yo makes meme government agencies.
Anyway, get your passport now. They’re good for ten years, enough to last at least through the tentative end of Trump’s circus.
99% of my Feed on Bluesky was just people saying they’ve left Twitter for Bluesky. No amount of suggest less of this helped.
happens on every “new” social media platform that is similar to another social media platform. Was all over Lemmy when people were “boycotting” reddit…course most went right back to reddit when the boycotting was over.
Can’t tell you how many “I’m moving to Google+” posts I saw back in the day. I wonder how that panned out for them…
Well i am on both. A lack of rpg and splatoon keeps me mostly on Reddit
Morrowind would keep me there but i dont really have much to say about it anyways in terms of posts (that hasnt already been said) so ion need it myself :3
Haha there is a gigantic wave of people switching over from twitter right now, that’s just what is on people’s minds. The conversation will move on soon enough.
Tbf, were you on lemmy last summer?
Or on Reddit after everybody left Digg
Yeah thats how it was here after the reddit fiasco.
It has improved here though, thank Jeebus.
Lemmy is just that but Linux and reddit users
Just like when Threads launched and or when Reddit made the API changes. You get a flood of new users who want to talk about being new users.
Twitter disappears when racism ends. Twitter will stay the cesspool it is.
Twitter dies when advertisers realize there’s no money in paying to advertise there. The moment it becomes more advantageous to pay for the ads somewhere else, it collapses.
Not when Elon can sue companies into continuing to advertise on Twitter.
No. I thought so too, but it’s not the case anymore. Elon is so rich now, that he can run Twitter just as his personal propaganda media. same as bezos bought that newspaper.
As long as it doesn’t become Twitter I don’t care if it beats it.
🎼It’s gonna be Blue~~~ Ski~~e~s for you~ and I~ 🎶
Even if it did, Musk would just buy it.
it isn’t necessarily for sale at the moment
Put enough zeros on the end of a check and it will be.
Even if it were for sale, it’s designed to be decentralized so you couldn’t buy the whole network, just like you can’t buy all of Lemmy or Mastodon. That’s the theory anyways - I don’t think they’ve really executed on it yet.
Tech journalists never learn anything from history. No Vc-funded social media is good
Some VC funded social media is certainly less fascist than other VC funded social media.
Given everything we’ve seen over theast little while, including the process of non-profits getting taken over by their VC funded subsidiaries; that difference you see is almost certainly a matter of being at a different point in their respective profit timelines.
Mastodon should revamp the project’s website homepage and promote a mobile apps with the closest Twitter-like feel or maybe a page for it without giving too many options (so people trying to promote it would share the link and people who aren’t familiar with federation not think its weird “non-official” websites promoting multiple apps), these people just want convenience and most are mobile users. I wish most would go to Mastodon but there are so many barries going from something quick and convenient like Twitter to something like a Fediverse social media, I think Pixelfed catches this issue better of looking closer to what people are used to (in their case, an alternative to Instagram) than Mastodon (alternative to Twitter)
The default iPhone app and sign-up process for the main instance is pretty darn straight-forward. I’ve never been a Twitter guy so I can’t speak to functionality, but it seems fine to me already.
Most humans seem incapable of understanding why decentralization of power matters.
X will likely merge with TruthSocial as the defacto Conservative/Right-wing social media site (named something dumb like “XTruthXSocialX”), while BlueSky will become the defacto Liberal social media site.
Can you imagine taking X (formerly Twitter) public again with a merger with $DJT? Holy smokes.
Don’t jinx it.
Especially not if they somehow coincidentally get some government funding.
I think I used to play Halo 3 with that guy
Oh yea, he never turned off his mic. Pretty sure I heard his mom come down with tang and Oreos and he cussed her out
His mom has pretty good tang though 👀👀
That would be great - much better than the current situation where twitter is run like a right-wing site but still has people from across the political spectrum hanging out there due to inertia.
These kind of articles always remind me whenever a new MMORPG launched, and then people claimed it would be the World of Warcraft killer.
On the other hand, the track record of old social networks is not great.
And it’s reasonable to posit Twitter is deep into the enshitifiication cycle.
Depends what “side” you’re on and what content you choose to engage with I guess.
Because features wise it’s better than ever I’d say, I’m not even sure what stuff they added or removed that would’ve made the platform worse.
I’d posit the algorithm has turned it into a monster.
Attention should be dictated more by chronological order and what others retweet, not what some black box thinks will keep you glued to the screen, and it felt like more of the former in the old days. This is a subtle, but also very significant change.
In truth, every subsequent mimic platform is smaller and more diluted.
I mean, plenty of other games have had way more concurrent players.
Maybe, but they’re not MMO games.
Lol if I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard about the next CoD killer
Is WoW still that popular though?..
Most definitely.
It’s seen better days and current expansion is kinda meh, but it’s still leading the amount of active players by a lot over all other MMO games.
I don’t think that’s true really - according to stats I’ve seen, Final Fantasy XIV now has more active players than World of Warcraft.
Hm last I checked it said WoW had a lot more, I think mostly due to the new expansion at the time. But I think different sources are stating different things, they’re pretty unclear where they get the numbers from anyway, there’s little consistency with other statistics online.
It’s hard to get exact numbers from WoW because they’re not publicly available. You might be right that WoW is still the biggest, I found some other numbers that disagree. WoW’s twitch numbers seem to be way higher.
I’ll edit my comment
Yeah I was looking at Twitch numbers too, but honestly it’d still be a wild guess why it’s that much higher. Could also be that they do something with Twitch drops, it essentially doesn’t say much about player count itself.
I know previously it was because of world-first races, but I’m not sure if that’s still the case.
Soooooooo…what happens whenever X eventually dies? Does Bluesky just defederate, and say “Haha! It is I who has the most audience, therefore I who dictate the industry!”
Hot or not was a thing until friendster was a thing.
Friendster was a thing, until myspace was a thing.
Myspace was a thing until facebook was a thing.
We’ve seen this line of ups and downs before. Eventually Twitter will be replaced. And then the new thing will be around. As of right now, Bluesky is “federated”, but it REALLY feels like they don’t want to be. Drop of a hat, and they’re defederated. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t see it.
I want you to imagine signing up for a service that has extroplatratinated defubulinators. And everybody on the service is taking full advantage of it. But you haven’t signed up yet, so your defubulinator needs to be created and calibrated before you can gain anything from it. Now imagine if you had no idea what extroplatratinated defubulinators even were, and you weren’t being given any indication what they do, or how to use them. Imagine you had no idea what I was even talking about. And imagine what you would do if search engines wouldn’t help you figure it out. But here I am, ranting and raving about how much better it is for you than traditional methods. But you couldn’t find ANYONE who used it, or knew what I was talking about either.
So now you just keep living life. Never again taking what I said serious.
There was a time when people thought legally mandated interoperability could become the law of the land. That dream is probably dead, but if there’s ever a chance to push it through, it would be worth doing. It’d be a complex piece of legislation to be sure and would probably need to go through a number of iterations to get it right, but it would be a start.
i donno about other social networks but my fedi posts from 15 years ago are still up.
15 years ago, was the early days of twitter, the dying days of myspace, and the point where facebook first became dominant.
You talking about one of those? Because zero chance your myspace are still up.
And facebook/twitter? Ew.
my fedi posts from 15 years ago are still up.
The creators seem pretty passionate about the federated network aspect of it: https://bsky.app/profile/pfrazee.com/post/3laujhn5lfs2p
That was the original project they signed up for after all.
and Google used to care about not being evil.
Corporations will ALWAYS enshittify a platform they control. It’s simply a matter of time.
