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They aren’t banning it because China can see what you put on it, they’re banning it because China can control what you see from it.
That would actually help the Democrats though, so it will probably be reversed
Left vs Right is a distraction.
The fight for a better life is Top vs Bottom.Sure, I’m just saying that Republicans are taking over and they rely on the disinformation machine to have a chance to get elected so banning TikTok goes against their interests.
They already have a massive disinformation machine across every medium.
Except there’s no evidence of that.
There’s no evidence that China can control what’s shown on a China-owned app?
In case you’re still unaware, the China govt is the ultimate authority within China, even in private companies. More so after recent crackdowns on their oligarchs and billionaires. The idea that they have no control over tiktok is plain laughable.
TikTok has gone out of their way to show they’ve siloed American operations. There has been no evidence that the Chinese government could or would breach that.
So you’re arguing that TikTok US, despite being fully owned and controlled by China, has full independence and decision making capability? Even regular western companies don’t have that. What the home office says, goes. At most, their American operations are making sure they’re abiding by US law with regards to data and such (and even then I’d highly doubt that, given all the forensic breakdowns about TikTok sending encrypted data to China).
If it sends encrypted data to China it would be the first I’ve heard of it. The worst the news could come up with last time is headcount data. And yes they went on an entire project to silo it. At the end of the day they want the money, and TikTok shop provides it. Other than that they sell the same info Meta does on the open market.
And yes they went on an entire project to silo it
So? It doesn’t matter what internal bureaucratic sleight of hand they pull. The bosses are in the CCP, and when they say ‘jump’, the answer is going to be ‘how high?’. That’s how private companies work.
At the end of the day they want the money
TikTok wants money. The CCP wants other stuff. As long as the CCP isn’t making demands, TikTok will make their money. The moment the CCP says to do something, TikTok will do it.
I really don’t think China is nearly as interested in siphoning data as controlling the algorithm. Getting people to see more pro-Chinese videos, more anti-US videos, and some bias toward candidates they want to see win is completely doable without exfiltrating any data.
Basically, all the stuff people are pissed about Musk doing to Twitter (changing algo to push right wing content) are just as feasible for TikTok to do, with the main difference being China is a state actor, whereas Musk is a private billionaire.
We should be very worried about any social media app that’s very popular and controlled by an org with political motivations.
If it sends encrypted data to China it would be the first I’ve heard of it.
No shit. Do you think they would tell everyone? Do you think it would be easy to prove?
Inversely, they’re banning it because the US cannot control what is posted on it— regardless of whether the central party in China can (they can and they do though so I am not sure why you’re debating it).
Really? Then you can point to the news article that lays out evidence of that actually happening and not just quoting FUD?
What the government wants out of this is to make an example. Then whenever they want something from Meta, Google, Apple, X, etc, they’re going to remind them of TikTok while pointing to the third section of the definition for foreign control. The catch all that says the app can be considered foreign if the government claims the owner has been unduly influenced by a foreign entity.
Meta is already a willing partner of the USSD, they don’t need to ‘make an example’.
SD?
Except for the extremely obvious disparity between chinese tiktok and american tiktok.
Nothing at all.
So are you saying they run the algorithm in their country? On their internal mirror app? The exact same setup TikTok offered the US?
I don’t see how that’s the evidence you’re looking for.
https://nypost.com/2023/02/25/china-is-hurting-us-kids-with-tiktok-but-protecting-its-own/
It’s extremely well documented that TikTok offers extremely different experiences within China than it does elsewhere.
Of course it does, and for two major reasons:
- Chinese law is very different from American law
- China’s domestic propaganda interests are quite different than it’s international propaganda interests
OK, so lets say they moderated it the same way here as they did in China… All good now?
I don’t think it matters at all how tiktok is actually being managed or moderated in the US - Americans simply do not trust anything Chinese.
The cold war never ended.
By moderating, if you mean using the same algorithm for the content feed, it would make a significant difference to a lot of people I believe.
I’m just a bystander, China sucks, but referencing a NY Post opinion piece feels a bit like using a Fox News segment as a source. They’re pretty trash.
There’s individual sources for practically every paragraph in that article, so I’m not seeing the issue in this case.
Are we still supposed to be on this shithole’s side or something?
I don’t care about winning the global economy. Do you? Does anyone who isn’t a sociopath that would. Drown a thousand babies for another nickel of quarterly earnings?
The nords are quite happy without playing herp derp growth or die.
Uh reply to the wrong comment?
to suppress video coming from Gaza and Lebanon? just a guess; but I’d imagine that’s at least a part of it.
Because when US politicians advocate for a single, global market, and a single, global internet, it is with the understanding that US firms and allied parties will dominate the space anyway. When that is no longer the case they get about as nervous as the Chinese got when they went and built the Great Firewall and made a clone of every popular western platform. Now that US/Western dominance is seriously challenged, we are seeing more and more signs of protectionism.
That and labor organizing, environmental awareness, and many other things where the absence helps the rich get wealthier .
It’s also just a blatant theft; there is a lot of money to be made here however it goes down , and that money goes to connected arseholes
It also broadcasts propaganda disproportionately highly and harmful ideologies as much as that little list of yours.
On its face the platform itself is neither good nor bad, but the massive theft of identifying information, photos, and personal conversations leading to increasingly common hacking and theft from Chinese sources tips the scales a bit.
Theater.
Cybersec is hard. There are always more holes. China exports a LOT of stuff with holes. We can do little more than stick our fingers in the dyke. This looks like they’re doing something.
What they’re not going to expect is how much people hate them for taking their entertainment away.
China already doesn’t control US TikTok servers.
https://www.mintpressnews.com/tiktok-chinese-trojan-horse-run-by-state-department-officials/284353/
Could I interest you in a bridge?
What are you suggesting? That Congress didn’t force TikTok to hand over control is US servers years ago? You didn’t see it in the news at the time, or you just don’t believe it?
Or do you think China has been censoring on behalf of the state dept?
I think they still get all the data of what goes off the servers, and I think that the Chinese side of the company still has ultimate control over what gets displayed.
The servers being in the US means that the Chinese government doesn’t have to have access to the servers but it doesn’t mean that they still don’t have the equivalent situation silently going on.
I really don’t care if China gets my data. They don’t have any jurisdiction over me. I’m concerned about domestic surveillance.
Because it’s bad if China has the information. It’s fine if “US entity” had the information. The ban is ultimately fake. No one banning the app cares about TikTok, they just hate that China is getting the information they want. What will happen is some US based company, Oracle last time, but someone like that will buy a sufficient enough stake in the company and the ban will not happen. It will be declared “safe” and the data will go to a US controlled entity, but also still secretly to China. (The later will be revealed years later, to the shock of no one.)
They already have a condition of “sell to an American entity or shut it down”
Until a flood of TikTok users bankrupt them, anyways.
Not entirely sure how you’d make the economics of hosting endless video files work without great big piles of money and some way to get even more big piles of money on a routine basis :/
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AFAIK, it’s still not had the code released, so at the moment there’s just the one site and you can’t host your own.
They can. And if at any point it becomes untenable, you can just archive whatever you host, shut down your instance, and put the videos up for download somewhere.
If a company is going bankrupt as a result of hosting a video service, they’re not hoping to be able to afford to archive and make it available for download either.
I think this could lead to bigger activity pub instances collecting revenue for allowing company owned instances to federate. aka ad revenue.
Could you explain that idea in more detail? I’m not really sure I understand how that would work in practice.
Private instance for company/creator: Hey, can we federate with your instance?
Large public instance: pay me.
Yeah, video hosting is notoriously expensive. It’s why there’s still not a real competitor to YouTube, because nobody else but Google could afford to run the platform at a net loss for the amount of time required to build a profitable user base.
If even a tiny percentage of TikTok’s US user base decided to move to Loops, that may be enough traffic to not only completely disable Loops, but would probably impact the rest of the Fediverse at large, too.
Interaction with the fediverse is very limited atm
The millions of free porn sites would beg to differ…
Free? They are ad-ridden and unlike YouTube, porn videos are removed from the site all the time.
Yet none of them really paywall you for using an adblocker.
Actually come to think of it, porn sites are the only place I allow ads (obv blocking the pop ups and other dark pattern fuckery)… probablys because I learned to ignore them entirely as a teen before ad blockers existed.
Not entirely sure how you’d make the economics of hosting endless video files work without great big piles of money
You’re absolutely right, which is why BitTorrent never managed to take off. Totally unviable, doesn’t work at all, and definitely isn’t the technology underpinning federated video services like PeerTube.
At one point BitTorrent/P2P was responsible for something like 30-40% of all global internet traffic.
The thing is the protocol never really developed beyond some useful, but minor evolutionary updates.
You say “never really developed beyond” as if that isn’t a synonym for “finished and working fine.”
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No. The app will be removed from the store and just stop working once they block traffic
Even with APK, it wouldn’t work if traffic itself is blocked.
VPN time
…the same shit is on Facebook.
The same exact mindless drivel bullshit.
They don’t care what the content or format is, just who owns it, and where the data is flowing. They want the data flowing into the U.S. and sold out. Rather than into China and sold out. That’s all it is.
Ha, eat that China! Now you need to pay millions to American oligarchs for all our user data!
USA!
Excellent
Cheering on censorship and protectionism, the American chauvinist way
It’s not “censorship” to ban a product like TikTok any more than it’s censorship to ban any other product. TikTok had the opportunity to sell to an American company (the same way all products on the Chinese market are forced to go through Chinese companies) and, for reasons that only they can explain, they chose not to do that. They would have made billions of dollars selling, but perhaps money isn’t their primary concern…
At any rate, we absolutely need to have a separate conversation about all social media in terms of privacy and data rights (though it’ll never happen under Republicans), but that doesn’t mean TikTok is free to continue being a completely opaque and unaccountable backdoor to the Chinese government.
Obviously being on Lemmy you get people who support open access. But seeing the state of the average American, and the results of their latest election, maybe it’s time for big brother to step in a little bit…
Yeah, full support for the Trump administration to have the power to say which social media is acceptable, that’ll fix everything! /s
If that’s the logic, explain why meta and google still exist.
… They said the populous of Lemmy was more scrutinizing of privacy than other platforms. He never said anything about the people using meta or Google. I’m not sure people here are even reading what others are saying.
To me it comes like this. If China won’t allow a Chinese owned app to be used in China, it gives other countries reason to worry about it. Meta and Google can be controlled by the U.S. government and are allowed within the nation they are owned in.
Is it a good thing they collect so much data, no. But this law has nothing to do with privacy, and everything to do with the flow of usable data and who controls that.
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obtain vpn
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use tiktok as usual
- Obtain VPN
- Never use tiktok as usual
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Good riddance, vertical videos are cancer, short form obliterates attention spans, and their algorithm is engineered specifically to addict people, especially kids.
Now to ban all the rest of them. Let’s start with Facebook. Twitter is already killing itself but could stand to be “helped” off the cliff.
These bans are bad. All it takes is for the US to think the fediverse is a threat and this goes too. You clearly don’t like the platform and that’s okay, but don’t root for government censorship on the internet.
The only reason this is bannable is that it is owned by china essentially; based on national security grounds. As long as the fediverse is never sold to an enemy nation, there’s nothing to worry about.
The US has control of US tiktok servers. This is bannable because politicians want the power to control social media.
Not true. That’s why the banning has a clause allowing for the sale of the US portion to a US (or other allied) company.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/17/tech/tiktok-user-data-oracle/index.html Definitely, definitely correct. A company that’s owned by a foreign nation shouldn’t be a problem. And if you think that this doesn’t set a precedent for banning anything politicians don’t like, then I feel sorry for your naivety.
There’s no national security basis to ban social media from the US or a friendly country. It would be protected by the first amendment otherwise. They have actual evidence that China was using TikTok as electronic warfare, which is the only reason they can ban it.
I’m baffled by your blind faith in politicians. There’s been clear foreign influence on just about every major social media platform.
Sounds very much like you’re telling me that if I have nothing to hide, I have nothing to fear.
Yeah, I’m all for Australia style banning to kids, however that gets implemented, but this is slippery slope and all that. But hey, maybe not, maybe it’s the only time they do it.
Wouldn’t that be nice, if the powers that be didn’t grab for more power lol
As a video editor, let me tell you how much I hate that not only do people watch shitty vertical videos all the time, but I’ve had to learn how to edit the fucking things.
I hate vertical video on a professional level.
That’s not just a TikTok thing though.
I think even people who use facebook know its a bad thing.
Depends what you use it for.
I joined Facebook when it first came out, when it was still only for Uni students, used it for many years and stopped probably about 8-10 years ago now. Fuck, how long has it been around for?
Anyway, I’ve recently rediscovered Facebook as I bought an old muscle car and I’ve been enjoying the groups and marketplace for parts.
Anyway, just a thought from an old Facebook user.
Agreed. Much of my family is on it, and most of them live in other countries. My brother, who is ASD, prefers to communicate with it rather than text or phone, and I live at least an hour’s drive from any friends. I use it to talk to them and I have joined a handful of groups, most of which I don’t post in, I just lurk.
I also tell them I don’t want to see any ads of any type of thing except the narrow number of things I don’t give a shit about if I see an ad for. Lots of telling them “I don’t want to see ads of this type” for a while, but it’s not anywhere near as bad now.
I did discover recently that if you go to “feeds” rather than just look at the main scroll, you see a lot less bullshit.
Is facebook marketplace competing with Craigslist or is Craigslist dead?
At least where I’m at, Craigslist is absolutely dead. Marketplace actually has consistent new listings.
Sorta rough facebook is the avenue for that nowadays. Sorta like if public libraries were located inside walmarts or something.
I just use it to find shitty $50 flat screen televisions when the next one dies. Works a treat.
Why would America ban Facebook for being a “national security threat” to America lmao? Nothing about this had to do with protecting kids or the dangers of social media. Don’t act like it did.
It never had appeal in the first place…
easiest way to lose is to never try
Tell basically all young people that.
You not liking it does not mean it doesn’t have appeal.
I was being facetious
Cool, but the rhetoric on Lemmy around non-federated social media being stupid indicates that many others here aren’t.
Now the horses are completely out of the stables, we close the door before the cows get any ideas
I am rubbing my nipples in anticipation of the FLOOD of pissed off teenagers who don’t know how to human without sharing their dances now.
…can someone explain the point of overlaying closed captions over the center of the video, but one word at a time fast paced?
The one word at a time thing is a way to demand more of your attention. It’s just a side path of the old advertising stick where words would ‘pop’ in weird ways. See this video for an example.
OK boomer.
Or why the video is of minecraft gameplay that’s entirely unrelated to the voice over and captions?
Because it wouldn’t be a video if it just had audio
I think that’s to keep you occupied to force you to listen to the shitty voiceover that you’d normally skip. Or I guess the opposite?
Actually captions like that can help you read faster. I’ve seen speed reading training things like that.
Ok, but how is it helpful for the general population?
So you can doom scroll faster… duh!
They’re not the target audience.
So who is it for? This is everywhere. It’s in YT shorts, Instagram posts, etc. As a style, it’s getting pretty ubiquitous, and I don’t understand the reason for it. At best it’s annoying because if I look away for a split second, I’ll miss a couple words and it won’t make sense anymore.
Well. A good assumption in life is if something is popular, and you don’t get it, it’s not for you so don’t worry.
People like weird shit.
I personally find that words on screen keeps my attention. But it annoys me if the thing I’m watching isn’t worth my attention. So it’s 50/50.
I’m on the spectrum. I can process reading way, WAY faster than I can process someone just audibly speaking to me. That shit’s actually helpful. I admit, it doesn’t need to be in the center of the video though.
It also shouldn’t be one word at a time imo
I guess, but as someone who’se functionally deaf, I’ll just always be grateful for subtitles.
Beats 80% of other content.
I don’t understand it either but it’s a product of how people consume the videos in their upright depression rectangles in public places with no volume I’d imagine.
Yeah, removing the headphone jack and jacking up the price for Bluetooth headphones will do that…
already banned, but thanks
stupid rule that helped cost Harris the election. Fuck every moron that voted for it.
The ban will not stand up and, because he had no core principles and is an opportunistic scoundrel, when this fails inevitably, trump will folly shift position and reframe/embrace the failure as deliberate action he took to “give tiktok back to the young people”. He’ll then do his double jerk off dance on the white house account and cement another couple decades of loyalty from the underinformed gen zers who will make up the bulk mass of humanity that officially drives us into full “ouch my balls” idiocracy
I cannot decide what to support here. On one hand, Tiktok is a blight and a cancer upon the whole world. But on the other hand, I’m kind of a libertarian, anyone should be able to do what they like.
