OK, its just a deer, but the future is clear. These things are going to start kill people left and right.
How many kids is Elon going to kill before we shut him down? Whats the number of children we’re going to allow Elon to murder every year?
If you want to motivate people to action, frame it in terms of the property damage they’ll experience to their car when it hits a child. We’ve already seen how far the American public is willing to go for children’s lives, and it’s not very far at all.
OK, its just a deer…
Vegans have left the chat
What if I told you that this has happened with Kids and recorded with kid stand ins. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mnG_Gbxf_w Not perfect evidence but the best you will find without signing a Tesla Non Disclosure.
self driving cars should absolutely be banned from public roads.
As much as I hate Elon, self-driving cars are the future and will be way safer than some idiot behind the wheel
“As much as I hate elon…”
“I hate elon as much as the next guy, but…”
“Look, I’m no elon fan, but…”
I’m sure you all know, but to be clear, the above are the beginnings of sentences from people who don’t hate elon. They are sentences from people who like elon, but think you will hate them, or not consider their opinions, if they say out loud that they do, in fact, like elon.
On a separate but related note, this is elon speaking at a hate-filled rally featuring a series of bigoted speakers, including himself. The rally very intentionally cosplayed an American Nazi rally that famously occurred at Madison Square garden in the 1930s. To emphasize how on the nose this all was, elon wore a specially made hat - a hat that very deliberately used an especially prominent font from the Nazi era. They are literally SCREAMING it in your face and tattooing it on their foreheads
elon has done nothing good or admirable with his life and elon will will not do anything good or admirable with his life. You can’t compartmentalize your opinion on this, he sucks, on the whole.
I hate Elon. There is no grey area in that statement.
Yeah, but Elon’s self-driving cars aren’t self-driving, nor are they necessarily as safe a good driver.
There are people out there who shouldn’t be able to drive, and in sane countries many of them don’t manage to get their licenses. But in the US for an example, apparently you can’t get anywhere without a car, so until the public transit situation is solved, drivers licenses need to be given out like candy :/ Exception being some cities with awesome public transit. The only one I’ve been to is NYC, where most people don’t really need to drive. I’d say the transit there is better than in my country.
And the worst part is that even once real SDCs exist and can be bought, not everyone can afford them. Or maybe they’ll be more like Uber or Bolt in that you hail one from an app and it picks you up - but then people in rural areas are still fucked without being able to drive themselves.
All cars are death machines
In the day, we sweat it out on the streets
Of a runaway American dream
At night we ride through the mansions of glory
In the suicide machines
“Born to Ride” - Bruce Springsteen
AI: %1 chance human, keep going like nothing happened
Full speed in the dark, I think most people would failed to avoid that. What’s concerning is it does not stop afterwards
Didn’t stop afterwards, didn’t even attempt to brake
Note that part of the discussion is we shouldn’t settle for human limitations when we don’t have to. Notably things like LIDAR are considered to give these systems superhuman vision. However, Tesla said ‘eyes are good enough for folks, so just cameras’.
The rest of the industry said LIDAR is important and focus on trying to make it more practical.
The rest of the industry said LIDAR is important and focus on trying to make it more practical.
Volvo is using LIDAR. I trust them way more than Tesla when it comes to something pertaining to safety.
reading this, I am scared how dulled I have become to the danger posed from my 45 minute daily commute back from work. 65 kilometer driving into the black at 100km/h
Isn’t Elon advertising AI as orders of magnitudes better reaction time and much less error prone than a human though…
Remember when they removed ultrasonic and radar sensors in favor of “Tesla Vision”? That decision demonstrably cost people their lives and yet older, proven tech continues to be eschewed in favor of the cutting edge new shiny.
I’m all for pushing the envelope when it comes to advancements in technology and AI in its many forms, but those of us that don’t buy Teslas never signed up to volunteer our lives as training data for FSD.
I think the LIDAR and other sensors are supposed to be IR and see in the dark.
Too bad Tesla’s don’t have that. Just cameras and machine learning.
The cameras alone should be able to see IR. There’s filters over most digital cameras to prevent that, but no reason to do it here.
Tesla is just advertising technology that isn’t ready, and people are dying as a result.
For any camera to see IR, there must be IR light there to be seen. LIDAR and proximity sensors emit their own light, but TIL tesla doesn’t have any… Great tech…my 300€ vacuum bot has LIDAR… Ofc it doesn’t go 130KM/h in the dark, but I was 99.99% sure any self-driving car had the bare minimum of sensors, but I guess Tesla isn’t one of them.
And its also always to have multiple layers of defence. Its straight up stupid to remove the redundancy in safety measures because you trust your tech.
Not only redundancy, but different types of sensors actually serve different purposes because they excel at different tasks.
Yeah, lidar and radar don’t need an external light source to work
Sensors that the Tesla famously doesn’t have (afaik, didn’t check) because Elon is a dumbass.
don’t most cars have proximity and collision detectors now?
Not Tesla though, it relies on cameras only.
leave it to elon to take existing technology and make it worse to sell it as innovative high tech. fucking moron
I watched the whole video… Mowed down like 90 deer in a row.
- Vehicle needed lidar
- Vehicle should have a collision detection indicator for anomalous collisions and random mechanical problems
Friendly reminder that tesla auto pilot is an AI training on live data. If it hasn’t seen something enough times then it won’t know to stop. This is how you have a tesla running full speed into an overturned semi and many, many other accidents.
I wonder how much recognition it has on non-white people. we’ve seen these models not having enough people of color in their samples before.
Color doesn’t matter to Lidar… Oh wait… Elon nixed that.
So, a kid on a bicycle or scooter is an edge case? Fuck the Muskrat and strip him of US citizenship for illegally working in the USA. Another question. WTF was the driver doing?
Filming, duh.
In regards to the deer, it looks like it might have been hard to see for the driver. I remember learning in driversED that it is better to hit the animal instead of swerving to miss it as it might hit a car to your side, so maybe that is what they were thinking?
Drivers Ed does not however say to ignore the brakes, either trying to avoid a collision. Especially to ignore the brakes after having hit something.
You just need to buy the North America Animal Recognition AI subscription and this wouldn’t be an issue plebs, it will stop for 28 out of 139 mammals!
I hit a deer on the highway in the middle of the night going about 80mph. I smelled the failed airbag charge and proceeded to drive home without stopping. By the time I stopped, I would never have been able to find the deer. If your vehicle isn’t disabled, what’s the big deal about stopping?
I’ve stuck two deer and my car wasn’t disabled either time. My daughter hit one and totaled our van. She stopped.
That said, fuck Musk.
If your vehicle isn’t disabled, what’s the big deal about stopping?
If you’re just careening down the highway at 80, you’re not really giving your car a fair chance to let you know that it’s really in a disabled state now are you?
It’s just common sense that after a major impact you should evaluate the safety of continuing in your current state. Stopping and doing the bare minimum of just looking at your car would be the first step of that process.
Maybe drive a little slower at night. If you can’t spot and react to animals on your path, you won’t able to react when it’s a human
It was an expressway. There were no lights other than cars. You’re not wrong, had a human sprinted at 20mph across the expressway in the dark, I’d have hit them, too. That being said, you’re not supposed to swerve and I had less than a second to react from when I saw it. It was getting hit and there was nothing I could’ve done.
My point was more about what happened after. The deer was gone and by the time I got to the side of the road I was probably about 1/4 mile away from where I struck it. I had no flashlight to hunt around for it in the bushes and even if I did I had no way of killing it if it was still alive.
Once I confirmed my car was drivable I proceeded home and called my insurance company on the way.
The second deer I hit was in broad daylight at lunch time going about 10mph. It wasn’t injured. I had some damage to my sunroof. I went to lunch and called my insurance when I was back at the office.
Great on paper but literally not okay to slow down to 35 mph on the freeway … Where most wild animals are hit at night.
Nobody is asking you to go at 35 mph. But going 60 mph instead of 80 mph means that your stopping distance will be nearly half and you will have almost twice the amount of time to react.
https://www.automotive-fleet.com/driver-care/239402/driver-care-know-your-stopping-distance
Have you hit a deer before or almost hit them in the dark? Yes absolutely 60mph will shorten your stopping distance and reaction time but not nearly enough. Even at 35mph people hit deer all the time because they typically jump out in front. But much faster than 35mph and even standing still in the middle of the road they’re tough to see and stop for. 60mph, not a chance.
I haven’t hit a deer, not even come close since they aren’t a problem in my country. You are most probably right and i have seen videos of deer just jumping onto the road at the last second which causes an unavoidable accident. My viewpoint is that when you hit a creature(animal or human) at 80mph, they are most certainly dead. If you hit them at 60, they might survive but be gravely wounded. If are able to react and slow down before contact to about 30, they will be hurt but at least they have a much better chance of the survival. Somehow going at same speeds during the day and during the night seems very risky
Whether or not a human should stop seems beside the point. Autopilot should immediately get the driver to take back control if something unexpected happens, and stop if the driver doesn’t take over. Getting into an actual collision and just continuing to drive is absolutely the wrong behavior for a self-driving car.
You’re supposed to stop and report it so they can come and get it so no one hits it and ends up more squishy then intended.
No one was hitting it. It ran into the tall weeds (not far, I’ll wager). I couldn’t have found it. Had it been in the road I’d have called it in.
Deer aren’t edge cases. If you are in a rural community or the suburbs, deer are a daily way of life.
As more and more of their forests are destroyed, deer are a daily part of city life. I live in the middle of a large midwestern city; in neighborhood with houses crowded together. I see deer in my lawn regularly.
The deer are actually the ones doing much of the deforestation.
But I agree with your point that the overpopulation is impossible to miss. I’m also in the suburbs of a major Midwestern city and the deer are everywhere. My city tags them so, oddly, you kind of get to know them.
Last year #100 and #161 both had fawns in my back yard (for a total of 3 babies). This year, #161 dropped 2 more back there. I still see #100 around, but I don’t think she had offspring this year. She might have been sterilized, but I heard that the city stopped doing that because some of our tagged deer were tracked to 2 states away. Now we just cull them.
Two days ago I saw a buck (rare for the 'burbs) chasing a few of this year’s fawns around. I thought “you dummy, those girls are too young to breed,” but then I looked it up, and apparently sexual maturity in deer is determined by weight, not age. Does can participate in their first-year rut if they’ve had enough to eat. And those little shits have had plenty of expensive flowers out of my garden.
I see buck all the time I’m my neighborhood! I was on a walk earlier this summer and turned a corner to be face to face with a small herd that was hopping fences to graze. The buck was across the street and just stared at me.
At first I was afraid because they can get big, but now I’ve seen them a few times and I’m thinking they are used to people. I’m still not getting close if I can help it. They are much bigger than you would expect.
I like seeing them but I feel bad that they are stuck in the city.
The deer are building subdivisions and stroads?
People are acting like drivers don’t hit deers at full speed while they’re in control of the car. Unless we get numbers comparing self driving vs human driven cars then this is just a non story with the only goal being discrediting Musk when there’s so many other shit that can be used to discredit him.
oh my fucking god
People are acting like drivers don’t hit deers at full speed while they’re in control of the car.
I should be very surprised if people don’t generally try to brake or avoid hitting an animal (with some exceptions), if only so that they don’t break the car. Whether they succeed at that is another question entirely.
People drive drunk, people drive while checking their phone, people panic and freeze, deers often just jump in front of you from out of nowhere.
People drive drunk, people drive while checking their phone,
And those people are breaking the law.
people panic and freeze
I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone panic so much they just act as if they didn’t even hit a deer.
deers often just jump in front of you from out of nowhere.
In this case, the deer was just sitting there, so not applicable.
People hit fucking humans without braking because they’re not paying attention to what the fuck they’re doing!
If it was this much negligence, they’d be facing vehicular manslaughter charges.
But for some reason if it’s a car with assistance well now that’s scandalous!
It’s scandalous when a human does it too. We should do better than human anyway, and we can identify a number of deliberate decisions that exacerbate this problem that could be addressed, e.g. mitigation through LIDAR, which Tesla has famously rejected.
… and that’s the kind of driving Tesla of trying to emulate? awesome.
No, I’m saying that one video of a Tesla hitting a deer doesn’t prove that they’re less safe or just as likely as human to hit things when using assisted driving.
Show actual stats of accidents per miles driven compared to cars without assisted driving and then we’ll be able to talk.
If we had videos of every Toyotas or Hyundai or Ford that hit deers while being driven by a human, this video of a Tesla doing it would just be a drop in a pool of water, but because it happened with an assistant behind the wheel people are acting like it means assisted driving doesn’t make cars safer.
TL;DR: It’s an anecdote, without actual stats it’s just noise to influence people’s opinion
Bravo, you’re the first person to bring actual fucking statistics to the discussion! Per driven miles would be better than per driven but hey, at least it’s not just a clickbait article.
Problem is the data is rigged. It’s road miles driven that autopilot deigned to activate for with cars that rarely need their friction brakes that are less than 10 years old versus total population of cars with more age and more brake wear and when autopilot says ‘nope, too dangerous for me’, the human still drives.
The other problem is people are thinking they can ignore their cars operation, because of all the rhetoric. A human might have still hit the deer, but he would have at least applied brakes.
Finally, we shouldn’t settle for ‘no worse than human’ when we have more advanced sensors available, and we should call out Tesla for explicitly declaring ‘vision only’ when we already know other sensors can see things cameras cannot.
A human might have still hit the deer, but he would have at least applied brakes.
You’re making quite the assumption there.
I’m not saying we need to settle, I’m saying it’s useless to share that example if we don’t have actual numbers to compare the stats between human driven miles and miles in cars with assistance available and insurance companies would have that.
Do you own Tesla stock?
Nope and I’ll be the first to say that Musk is a fucking moron, but there’s tons of shit to attack him on, pretending that Tesla cars are more deadly than human driven cars with anecdotal evidence is just stupid.
