Everything was clear about Mozilla the moment they started fighting the ecosystem around Gecko, with alternative browsers, useful extensions and so on. And, of course, the old usable UI.
People just forget what they don’t know how to process.
Disagree, XUL was a dead end that either needed shooting behind the bike shed or it’d have taken Mozilla down with it inevitably. It froze their internal architecture to a design that didn’t care about multicore or modern security. Switching to a proper extension api (it didn’t matter if it was chromes or their own, only that they are willing to make their own decisions, like in manifest v3).
That said, I suspect the real death blow was when they killed servo, that project was their distant salvation, a chance to genuinely outcompete technologically and direct where browsers need to go next. I too hope I’m wrong and they can figure out a path forward, but they’ve shown little ambition from the top, so I’m not holding my breath.
Edit: you could argue that the solution to XUL should have been an upgrade to modern design rather than death, but that would have just been an expensive temporary reprieve, the world doesn’t stop changing, it was always going to be slow to correct to whatever direction they needed to go next (and meanwhile every extension dev would be screaming murder every time they killed some braindead api designed 20 years ago).
I think it was more a case of where. I wasn’t commenting on posts that showed it negatively, I was commenting on posts that propped it up as the be-all-end-all gift to mankind. When there was any news on Sam Altman, everyone was up his ass. At the time, I’d comment some nuanced stuff that essentially took him down a few pegs and I got lit the fuck up.
Aside from that, I was commenting on the environmental effect. Which even when I provided links- I was met with the whole “Bruh! The pros will outweigh the cons!” rhetoric.
Wether you believe it or not, it’s true. People have defended OpenAI and other LLMs vigorously over the past few years. It’s only been recently that they’re all being seen for what they are.
On lemmy, on Reddit…. And no citation is needed. This isn’t a court of law. I don’t owe you proof of my claim, nor care if you believe me. I said what I said because it’s fucking frustrating to have been shot down time-and-again for saying shit that people soon end up agreeing with.
It’s the same as the bullshit with Elon Musk. Everyone was up his ass thinking he’s the next Tony Stark. No one wanted to hear anything negative about him.
Is it so hard for you to believe that there once were people that once were able to see the negative side to LLMs?
Just because you haven’t seen a thing, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You really shouldn’t have gotten on this far without having had this explained to you by now- but here we are.
Okay man. Look. I’m not here to entertain your 3rd degree over something that doesn’t require it. If I’m lying, it’s a dumb thing to lie about. If I’m telling the truth, you believing me isn’t something that holds any value to me, so….
You’re going to have to find someone to pay you your attention elsewhere. I’m not that guy.
Are you ten years old? What is this petty squabbling?
If you don’t believe him you can either A. prove him wrong, or B. express your doubt. You don’t get to whine and cry until he does the research you want. That’s not how any of this works.
I think it’s another example of “internet bubbles” - people with similar views tend to congregate together and this is particularly true on the internet, when going elsewhere is always just a mouse-click away.
When ChatGPT first launched, Lemmy was still pretty much a ghost town, and it did cause a lot of optimistic excitement e.g. on reddit. Lemmy got a big surge in numbers when reddit did its infamous API changes - enshittification driven by spez’s and other reddit executives’ insatiable lust to exploit the site for more and more money.
Perhaps for this reason, people on Lemmy are more averse to the enshittification trend and generally exploitive nature of large tech companies. I think this is what people on Lemmy object to - tech companies’ concentration of power and profits by ripping off the general public - not so much the concept of LLMs themselves, but the fact they could easily be used to further inequality in society.
The claim was that people on lemmy treated openai as saints when chatgpt first came out, I never saw anything like that and I’ve been here for 5 years. https://lemmy.ml/u/communist
i’ve never seen this on lemmy, other places, sure, but not once on lemmy.
Yes you’re right, sorry I went off on a tangent about the reasons for the intense negativity in the Lemmyverse about LLMs. I’ve been using lemmy for four years, and definitely don’t think there has ever been any positive feelings towards LLMs here, especially as ChatGPT’s arrival predates the first surge of users on Lemmy (and the subsequent appearance of all the instances we see today). On reddit, yes, and there are still many people there who still think OpenAI is great.
Dude… I’m not digging through years worth of comments across several social media platforms and accounts on each just to satisfy your purposelessly sad need for attention.
So if as a result of this. you are left with no other choice than to accuse me of lying because I’m not playing along with your little internet rule of “you have to prove what you say or I get to call you a liar!” bullshit, then be my guest. But I’m an adult. I don’t play by nonsense childish internet rules and I don’t appease trolls.
Now, having explained my stance on the issue, I can expect you’ll exercise your compulsion to have the last word and call me a liar again?
I was calling this shit out for years, yet I was downvoted into oblivion, argued with, called names, and dismissed as a result.
Heh, I warn about Mozilla/Firefox all the time and get the same. I hope I’m wrong though :(
Everything was clear about Mozilla the moment they started fighting the ecosystem around Gecko, with alternative browsers, useful extensions and so on. And, of course, the old usable UI.
People just forget what they don’t know how to process.
Disagree, XUL was a dead end that either needed shooting behind the bike shed or it’d have taken Mozilla down with it inevitably. It froze their internal architecture to a design that didn’t care about multicore or modern security. Switching to a proper extension api (it didn’t matter if it was chromes or their own, only that they are willing to make their own decisions, like in manifest v3).
That said, I suspect the real death blow was when they killed servo, that project was their distant salvation, a chance to genuinely outcompete technologically and direct where browsers need to go next. I too hope I’m wrong and they can figure out a path forward, but they’ve shown little ambition from the top, so I’m not holding my breath.
Edit: you could argue that the solution to XUL should have been an upgrade to modern design rather than death, but that would have just been an expensive temporary reprieve, the world doesn’t stop changing, it was always going to be slow to correct to whatever direction they needed to go next (and meanwhile every extension dev would be screaming murder every time they killed some braindead api designed 20 years ago).
Weird, I said this shit for years, and I was upvoted into the heavens, agreed with, called a hero, and acknowledged as a result.
Maybe is not what was being said?
I think it was more a case of where. I wasn’t commenting on posts that showed it negatively, I was commenting on posts that propped it up as the be-all-end-all gift to mankind. When there was any news on Sam Altman, everyone was up his ass. At the time, I’d comment some nuanced stuff that essentially took him down a few pegs and I got lit the fuck up.
Aside from that, I was commenting on the environmental effect. Which even when I provided links- I was met with the whole “Bruh! The pros will outweigh the cons!” rhetoric.
I only see negative posts about openai, I kinda find this unbelievable, do you have any examples?
Wether you believe it or not, it’s true. People have defended OpenAI and other LLMs vigorously over the past few years. It’s only been recently that they’re all being seen for what they are.
On lemmy?
[citation needed]
https://lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz/search?q=openai&type=Posts&listingType=All&page=1&sort=TopAll I just tried this, went back 2 pages, not even one positive post, dunno what you’re talking about.
On lemmy, on Reddit…. And no citation is needed. This isn’t a court of law. I don’t owe you proof of my claim, nor care if you believe me. I said what I said because it’s fucking frustrating to have been shot down time-and-again for saying shit that people soon end up agreeing with.
It’s the same as the bullshit with Elon Musk. Everyone was up his ass thinking he’s the next Tony Stark. No one wanted to hear anything negative about him.
Is it so hard for you to believe that there once were people that once were able to see the negative side to LLMs?
??? I only see people talking about the negative of both of these on lemmy. Maybe reddit, sure, I have no idea there, but on lemmy??
I don’t know what you’re talking about.
I have never seen a positive post about openai get upvotes on lemmy, not even when they started.
I have never seen a positive post about elon musk on lemmy that got upvoted…
Just because you haven’t seen a thing, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You really shouldn’t have gotten on this far without having had this explained to you by now- but here we are.
I’m not going to argue with you about it.
Yeah but it certainly doesn’t mean it does exist just because you said so.
Something stinks.
Okay man. Look. I’m not here to entertain your 3rd degree over something that doesn’t require it. If I’m lying, it’s a dumb thing to lie about. If I’m telling the truth, you believing me isn’t something that holds any value to me, so….
You’re going to have to find someone to pay you your attention elsewhere. I’m not that guy.
Are you ten years old? What is this petty squabbling?
If you don’t believe him you can either A. prove him wrong, or B. express your doubt. You don’t get to whine and cry until he does the research you want. That’s not how any of this works.
I don’t think you’ve paid enough attention. Back when ChatGPT first launched, they were treated as saints.
The negative opinions have corresponded with public sentiment souring towards them in general (this did happen quite quickly, however).
Can you provide even one example? AI is my autistic obsession, and I never saw anything like that on lemmy even once.
I was even regularly searching for “AI” using the search feature daily.
I have never once seen this, and I don’t find it believable at all, honestly.
I think it’s another example of “internet bubbles” - people with similar views tend to congregate together and this is particularly true on the internet, when going elsewhere is always just a mouse-click away.
When ChatGPT first launched, Lemmy was still pretty much a ghost town, and it did cause a lot of optimistic excitement e.g. on reddit. Lemmy got a big surge in numbers when reddit did its infamous API changes - enshittification driven by spez’s and other reddit executives’ insatiable lust to exploit the site for more and more money.
Perhaps for this reason, people on Lemmy are more averse to the enshittification trend and generally exploitive nature of large tech companies. I think this is what people on Lemmy object to - tech companies’ concentration of power and profits by ripping off the general public - not so much the concept of LLMs themselves, but the fact they could easily be used to further inequality in society.
The claim was that people on lemmy treated openai as saints when chatgpt first came out, I never saw anything like that and I’ve been here for 5 years. https://lemmy.ml/u/communist
i’ve never seen this on lemmy, other places, sure, but not once on lemmy.
Yes you’re right, sorry I went off on a tangent about the reasons for the intense negativity in the Lemmyverse about LLMs. I’ve been using lemmy for four years, and definitely don’t think there has ever been any positive feelings towards LLMs here, especially as ChatGPT’s arrival predates the first surge of users on Lemmy (and the subsequent appearance of all the instances we see today). On reddit, yes, and there are still many people there who still think OpenAI is great.
They just wants the attention of an argument. I made the mistake of giving it to them.
One example and I shutup
Or you could just shut up.
When you admit you’re lying, sure!
Dude… I’m not digging through years worth of comments across several social media platforms and accounts on each just to satisfy your purposelessly sad need for attention.
So if as a result of this. you are left with no other choice than to accuse me of lying because I’m not playing along with your little internet rule of “you have to prove what you say or I get to call you a liar!” bullshit, then be my guest. But I’m an adult. I don’t play by nonsense childish internet rules and I don’t appease trolls.
Now, having explained my stance on the issue, I can expect you’ll exercise your compulsion to have the last word and call me a liar again?
Don’t care either way.
It took me like a whole minute to do it to you and prove you are lying. Faster than typing up your responses.
You are a liar.
search “ai” posts by you in the search box
sort by upvotes, go to where it’s negative, link one example
easy
it is so incredibly fast, yet you cannot do it
i’ll tell you what, if you link an account where it did happen, I’ll do it for you!