Summary
Following Donald Trump’s recent election victory, Google searches for “4B,” a South Korean feminist movement advocating a “no sex, no dating, no marriage, no children” stance, surged in the U.S.
The 4B movement, popular among young women on social media, promotes individual resistance against conservative politics and the erosion of reproductive rights.
The trend reflects a broader ideological divide between young men and women in the U.S., where women under 30 are significantly more liberal than men.
Sigh. This is not and is never the answer.
I’m not sure why this generation is so gung-ho to sell itself out.
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Bold of you to assume that someone was touching my peepee before all those craziness
Hookers are cheaper than a house man. Save yourself the drama.
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Jim (40yo & married): “this is dumb and obviously just another ploy to turn people against each other”
Lemmy: “anyone who thinks this is stupid is an unfuckable neckbeard rapist!”
Have fun not-fucking the best years of your life away while you get played by the latest payop.
Wonder what the “thing” we’re all enraged about will be next month.
What?
You have to be a special kind of stupid to advocate for punishing men because Trump won.
Sane people should not let this interfere with them starting a family. I guess that’s why you can’t understand my point.
Also gonna block you, it’s clear you’re too far gone from these forums.
You I have to be a special kind of stupid to miss the point of this movement so extremely. These women don’t want to start families until they feel they have control and safety over their own bodies. Fuck off, facist.
The movement is great; this thread did connect it to the start of Idiocracy for me though. Smart people having less kids and dumb people breeding like rabbits. I fear this movement has all the potential of limiting the left from reproducing while the right keeps right on going. Gives one pause.
So what, our only option is for people capable of pregnancy to shit out kids to outnumber facists?
Not at all what I suggested. I also believe that this is a good movement. But sometimes there are other side effects.
The reality is many right leaning folks follow religious beliefs that encourage large families and discourage birth control, so be default they do “shit out more kids than the other side” and thus that is why the status Quo for the right was preserved for so many generations, arguably right up until WW2 and the information age when knowledge turned the tide. And the right knows knowledge turned the tide, hence why a large part of Project 2025 is about crippling the education system.
I believe we need to have less kids to reduce population and practice degrowth, frankly. I believe MAGA idiots and any man that voted for Trump do deserve this cock block. I am just also seeing where this may backslide. It’s good to keep looking at all possibilities.
What? Women don’t want to start families until they can be sure they can get an abortion? And you speak for all of them on the matter?
Lol. I think you’re too far gone, buddy.
I think you ate a lot of lead paint as a child. Maybe even as an adult, too.
Yeah, that’s about the response I would expect from someone like you.
Gonna block you now. You need to spend less time on these forums to fix your worldview.
Yellow-bellied coward. Come back here! Fight me on the internet so that i can feel like a big man!!
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I’m not quite onboard with your “punishing men” rhetoric later in the thread, but here I agree
Like, how many attempts are now undertaken to pitch men and women against one another or otherwise separate them, and how far can this rabbit hole go?
Men are growing wary of women - and everyone’s cheering as MGTOW raises heads again. Women are getting increasingly defensive - and breed fear and loathing, as crowds cheer again. Both play off each other to show how much the other side sucks.
One is only seen as friendly if they support this division; anyone trying to bridge it is seen as a bad actor.
Stop it. Fuck 4B. Fuck MGTOW. Fuck that conservative dude who thinks they have a right for a woman’s body. Fuck those who put all men into sexual offenders category. Let common sense, love, and responsibility to each other prevail. Go outside and protest gerontocrats trying to take women’s right for their own body. Allow and encourage men to stand alongside and be part of the fight against forces many of them didn’t choose. Never put all people in one basket, and fight your true enemy.
So… MGTOW for women?
Okay, bye
anti-natalism rules
the 4B movement is just a bunch of TERFs
#inform #resist #improve
Understandable.
But sweaering of ALL men is neither healthy nor realistic and the 4B movement is not really helping the issue. Plua the movement is extremely transphobic and essentialist. Its just TERFs doing a thing again…
A more practical solution: Dont date MAGA and leave them if need be. Take the children from them as well. They deserve scorn for voting in a dictator, just because they cant get laid. And they deserve to be reminded on how parhetic they are for all of it every single das until they change.
Agreed. I also can understand the feelings behind this, but it seems to ignore that quite a number of women voted for Trump.
Bingo. My wife won’t vote for a woman president because she, not me, thinks that they’re too emotional. I know a decent amount of women in the workplace that feel the same way. I voted for Kamala because Trump is a paranoid narcissist that is a thief, liar, and can’t be trusted and she was a darn sight better to keep the boat moving predictably forward.
Women are too emotional to be president? Shit man, maga and their current figurehead are fueled by extremely volatile emotion, no matter how much they crow about facts vs feelings. Rage is an emotion, and it’s what’s driven the movement for years before it even had a name. Citing emotionality as a reason not to elect a woman is just an excuse—a very poor one, at that—and everyone knows it.
Hey, you’re preaching to the choir. Lol.
You: Stop with the misandry!
Also you: wOmEn ArE tOo EmOtIoNaL tO bE pReSiDeNt
Might want to re-read that comment.
Reading comprehension. Jesus you people are stupid.
No wonder why the Democrats continue to underperform.
That’s rich. How could one ever think in this election that Kamala was the emotional one. She made one joke about his crowd size and he went completely off the rails.
Got me. I think Trump is incredibly unstable.
Your wife is a moron
I hope that made you feel better.
Needs to be said mate
Preaching to the choir doesn’t do any good. Just makes that person feel better about themselves.
They should feel bad
I hope you realize your wife is a moron and a fascist.
Never said she voted for Trump. In fact, we don’t tell each other who we vote for. So yeah, try again. She’s typically strongly independent and really hates the two party system. RCV FTW.
My wife won’t vote for a woman president because she, not me, thinks that they’re too emotional.
This is directly from the Right’s playbook. She’s a moronic fascist.
Talk to her, and teach her the error of her ways. If you continue to be an apologist for a fascist, you might as well give up and join their ranks.
It’s not about feeling better. It’s about calling out bad behavior (i.e. misogyny).
The problem is that some men will literally tell a woman anything they want to hear until they’re in bed. They will lie their ass off and avoid political discussion until after the proposal, then they’ll suggest maybe she could cook a little more
There’s nothing inherently unhealthy about being asexual.
This is not just being asexual. This incel behaviour.
Incel = involuntary celibacy
These women are volunteering to be celibate.
Wow you don’t understand what incels are at all do you?
It’s called celibacy, and it’s voluntary in this context.
Abstains from sex is celibacy. That’s 1B.
There are 4Bs
The Bs are celibacy, no marriage, no children, no dating. None of that is incel behavior.
4B isn’t about asexuality, it’s about abstinence. Not the same thing.
From a physiological standpoint? Seems virtually the same to me. The other guy said it was unhealthy. Is there anything unhealthy about abstinence?
The difference is that one is identity and the other is a choice.
Yes, no one is arguing that. The context was there’s no difference physiologically speaking. That was the premise.
I think the distinction is important to some people.
I have enough respect for those people to know they are smart enough to understand the distinction.
They’re not necessarily the same, there’s two major differences between them physiologicaly:
- Asexual people date others unless they are also aromantic (well aromantic people also can date but it’s less common)
- Some asexual people can and do have sex
Asexuality doesn’t have the desire for sex.
This is abstinence for those that would like to have sex but don’t feel safe.
Physiologically it means that abstinence produces stress.
So yes, there are physiological differences, even if they arent measurable on the short term but instead of the long term.
This is a GREAT idea!
“Young men expect sex, but they also want us to not be able to have access to abortion,” Thomas told The Post. “They can’t have both. Young women don’t want to be intimate with men who don’t fight for women’s rights; it’s showing they don’t respect us.”
Sounds reasonable and fair to me.
In over 50% of America’s land area Rapists get to pick the mother of their child.
Flee red states.
The only why they’ll learn is if the rational people leave. The whole fill strategy will never work because red states need you more than you need them.
Flee red states!
Project 2025 advocates for tracking of child barring age women and girls. They will turn you into brood sows the moment they get a chance and justify it as the moral good.
Flee red states!
Blue states aren’t perfect but we at least know what freedom is and don’t need a 2000 yeast old book to decide what we should do next.
Fleeing my state isn’t an option. Besides, my state didn’t used to be red. A lot of states flipped or at least went from purple to red. So it’s not even a guarantee if you uproot your entire family and life that you get to stay blue.
I feel so demoralized when this comes up, as if it’s my own fault I’m living somewhere with terrible laws. I voted. I got other people to vote. I changed a few minds on abortion (not easy to do!). I don’t have the money or resources to start somewhere else, and we’re all about to have less money.
Are you willing to risk your mother’s, sisters, and daughters bodily autonomy on a under performing political party?
I’m not saying leaving will be easy. And I’m not saying it paradise and blue States. But I am saying red states don’t deserve you. Start making a plan at least because they won’t stop.
It’s my bodily autonomy. I’m a woman of child-bearing age. I even want to make a child sometime in the next four years. I’m risking my health. I can’t move. I will end up broke with zero resources in another state, with no job, and my husband will need to start his career from scratch if we move. We just can’t afford it. Plus wherever we move, we’ll be separated from both our families who are local here. And again, even if we move, wherever we start over could just be red in two election cycles anyway. Moving isn’t the answer.
An awful lot of generalizing there.
Did the hat fit you?
I voted for Kamala thanks.
Even incels can vote for Kamala
You really nailed me. What a joke this place is.
That’s not helping.
Dig a hole speed run any%
It’s talking about people who support trump. But you can’t only target them as people will just hide their political views to get laid.
I don’t think anyone involved thinks she’s talking about every single young man. Well, except you, of course
“Young men…” wow I wonder where that idea came from
Jesus Fucking Christ, do we literally have to have women say things like:
“Young men – not all, just some, well in some areas most, but a lot of young men – expect…”
This tiptoeing bullshit to not anger some fragile men is insane. I lived as a straight man for over 40 years and this new idea that men are somehow put upon whenever a woman brings up being objectified, or has an issues with interactions with /takes a breath some, but not all, just a large amount, enough to be traumatizing, particularly as it’s systemic to the patriarchy, men.
This is ridiculous semantic bullshit in response to women feeling like objects and pushing back.
We’re better than this, and I’m tired of watching us act absolutely horrible whenever women point out systemic, extremely frequent issues they have with men, and have to inch around it so as to not break our fragile egos.
I agree. It’s like the whole “Not all men” deal: nitpicking the details of the phrasing instead of tackling the root issue. You’re only fighting those symptoms that affect you directly, not the root cause.
The day I have someone yelling in my face that I’m to blame for some other man’s rape is the day I’ll argue about that issue. Until then, let’s focus on the actual problem: In this case (some) young men being pieces of garbage.
Women just want to be put in their place.
… … …
obviously not ALL women, why would you even think that? Just the ones who conform to my incredibly contemptuous description of them (a majority of white women apparently).
Just the ones who conform to my incredibly contemptuous description of them (a majority of white women apparently).
Going to need an attribution there, champ.
What kind of attribution do I need? I’m only talking about the ones who fit the description. Seems to me like trump voters fit that description but hey, if I’m wrong no biggy. After all I am only talking about the ones that do. Can’t you just infer that?
Women need to say, “Well, not every man is a rapist, but every person who raped me was a man, amd when I tried to speak up, almost every man told me he needed more evidence, that was an extreme claim that could ruin that man’s life, and when I tried to call police, they were made also of men who also rape and commit domestic violence at high rates, and when I went to court the judge was a Trump appointeee… So I guess really no men are rapists because the system doesn’t allow us to label them. Or maybe that makes all of you dangerous.”
Just the word “most” or “some” would avoid this whole conversation. Why does it have to come to this every time?
Why does it have to come to this every time?
I don’t know, why do men require people to use extra words not to hurt their feelings?
“Young men expect sex, but they also want us to not be able to have access to abortion,” Thomas told The Post. “They can’t have both. Young women don’t want to be intimate with men who don’t fight for women’s rights; it’s showing they don’t respect us.”
See, they even included parts like that, and still people are here whining about it.
I’m definitely not young. I’ve pretending to know me though.
I’ve pretending to know me though.
You’ve what? Had a stroke?
Now he’s just worried that they’re talking about him. Which they probably are considering his immediate defensive reaction.
It doesn’t seem generalized at all to me.
- A series of laws are passed that make this thing riskier.
- Do less of the risky thing.
- Make it clear why.
What’s the problem?
Hmm so this movement excludes men that want abortion to be available then? Missed that.
It’s about risk management, first and foremost.
I suppose you might get a second look from a 4B-practitioner if you had a vasectomy (i.e. to remove the risk of pregnancy), but I’m a man so I can only speculate on this. And of course this isn’t such a great option if you do plan to have kids some day. Then again, despite the anti-abortion rhetoric of “don’t have sex if you aren’t ready to reproduce”, planned pregnancies are much more dangerous under abortion bans.
Would you mind saying what you mean here? I’d like for you to explain your thought a little more.
I’m responding to “it doesn’t seem generalized at all”. If that were the case it would not be a movement based on absolutes that apply to all men
It most certainly doesn’t exclude anyone unless you think someone refusing to have sex with you is an act of exclusion.
Most of all of us are refusing to have sex with you at this very moment.
This seems to assume that I’m concerned this will impact me. I’m not, at all. Not slightly. It wouldn’t even impact me if I were even single, which I’m not.
I could probably put out an ad on Craigslist offering to pay someone like this for an interview and still never meet such a person or even get an email back about it.
I think the subtext implies that you can have sex with people that don’t suck. This is the female counterpart to, “don’t stick your dick in crazy”.
I mean the “no sex, no kids, no marriage” slogan seems not that.
Taking into context that it’s to protest people against reproductive rights, I take it that it’s to punish and withhold specifically from those people.
I think they are more saying none of that with people who don’t respect our right to our own bodies
That is mentioned nowhere in this argument. But the credo of the movement is:
No sex. No dating. No marrying men. No children.
This sounds pretty intentionally absolute in nature
Did really some of the American women need for Trump to be elected twice before learning this? Isn’t this supposed to be common sense, not just only for women?
Either everyone but you is stupid, or you’re missing something.
They haven’t figured out that Conservatives see this as a huge win? No liberal babies…
Typical media BS.
Found a story about a very small movement somewhere in the world than are blowing it out of proportion and saying this is actually a thing.
This is why Dems lost the election but the media thought they would win.
Fucking click bait sex sells story.
Good for them for asserting their autonomy but basically the end affect is the opening plot of Idiocracy
I get your point, but I wouldn’t worry about what might happen in 20 years when what is currently happening is bad.
I get your point, but I wouldn’t worry about what might happen in 20 years when what is currently happening is bad.
Ahh, the ol’ false bifurcation ostrich effect as a thought-terminating-looparoo.
I don’t think dismissing eugenics based arguments based on movie plots is a thought terminator lmao.
Downvoting to save words in your reply - nice. Have another upvote.
Your most recent reply actually conveys meaning/makes a specific versus broad point. To that point, I don’t necessarily think they were making a eugenics based argument (though I would agree with you in dismissing an argument based on that) since they didn’t explicitly state the reason for mentioning the movie was because they believe in some idea of politics being genetic versus simply being most effectively passed down via social means from one’s parents while living with them through adolescence. Call me crazy, but I think most of the folks posting here should be given the benefit of not assuming they’re talking about eugenics until they are explicitly promoting it versus something more widely accepted, such as the aforementioned idea that it’s highly likely that parents pass down their politics through social means to their children. I could, of course, be wrong and maybe they were intending to make a eugenics based argument, but they weren’t specific enough to divine that. All of that said, I should edit the phrasing in a sarcastic comment I made elsewhere about removing oneself from the gene pool being a bad strategy since I probably wasn’t clear enough to get across that I was using the very real right-wing perspective where they favor their “good genes” over others’ “genes” for added effect.
Your initial (decidedly vague) comment, as quoted, presents a false choice as if the person you were replying to was worrying about a future problem that is totally disconnected from the current topic of discussion, but they’re not and I don’t think the person you were replying to gave any reason for one to infer that they were ignoring the current issue in favor of some future issue. If they were talking about disconnected topics/problems then what you were saying would make more sense (or if you had been more specific, like in your followup, that would help too). It’s as if the person noticed a ceiling was leaking and exclaimed to someone suggesting to just put a bucket under it “Ignoring a leak is exactly how my neighbor ended up needing to replace their roof, I don’t think the bucket plan is a good plan in the long term!” and you were there to reply “Don’t tell them to worry about the roof, they need to fix the leak!” It’s not wrong, it just doesn’t really say anything or lead to further thought beyond the loop and comes across as a “calm down!”
Yes, women should rape themselves by having sex with men they are furious with to avoid the ending of a random documentary
20 years from now is current when you’re older
Until the loneliness of conservative men hits the breaking point.
They have each other. Why does their loneliness require women?
What was the 2024 election if not that?
It was stolen.
White women voting for whoever their white husband/pastor/dad told them to vote for.
Fuck that if they voted for him they’re to blame.
Sure, blame women for the actions of men
It worked in the Arab Spring
I’m not being facetious, but how many countries that were part of the Arab spring are now not effectively Islamic dictatorships?
It was a great thing at the time but it seems to me to have not paid off.
I mean it’s a tale as old as time. Surviving and opposing strongmen dictatorship selects for the most adherent and extreme. Thus when the dictatorship falls for whatever reason the crazy extremists are usually in the best position.
yeah please actually fucking do this. men have had it too easy. it’s time to stop appeasing them(us?). Yes patriarchy harms men quite a bit and they(we?) were already among its victims, but molly coddling men has clearly not worked.
this body i’m in, people see it and presume it’s white, cis, and male, so i say this while fully understanding that women following 4B would treat me even less human than they already do. But frankly, every single aspect of me that has ever been ‘masculine’ feels less human already so i can’t blame them. it would feel right. it would be eminently fair. i’m sick of being associated with the depravity of the misogynistic paradigm. i’d rather be completely ostracized and socially isolated than know that this shit is still going on. end it. fucking end it. please.
I’ve noticed shitty men have it too easy. It’s a cultural problem centered around what we value.
Guys always ask me how to meet women. I say, " It’s easy, be polite and learn how to communicate." None of them succeed.
The bar is so low and yet they almost all fail. It’s down right scary. Just be polite and talk like a human being. Oh, and guys, don’t send the d pic unless asked. It really doesn’t do what you think it does.
The issue is, they go with sole intention of meeting a partner. Women rightfully have their guard up. If you just interact with someone in a hobby you both share interest in, she’s more likely to be into you. But not after a fucking week for crying out loud!
What? You mean that awkward pose with us choking it like “the dog having something in their mouth,” is cool? Also me say hi then dick pic doesn’t get you going?
The “bar” argument doesn’t exist. Plenty of women date shit bags. lol
Maybe it’s you that’s the issue?
Also, you can get any woman with a net.
Sure, but I get women consensually.
Realy? Has Animal Crossing lied to us?
Dweeb lord equating a game to real life.
It’s really not that hard, I don’t get it. The only conclusion that I’ve been able to come to is that guys think being empathetic, polite and communicative will get them friend-zoned or something. That they have to be pushy about it or the gal will just be like, “you’re such a sweet guy, I think you’re a great friend”. You know, friends talk, partners fuck, or something like that.
Does anyone actually say that? I swear I’ve heard it or something similar before…
…Anyway, no, idiot, you’re getting friend-zoned because they’re just not into you that way. Being aggressive just gets you shut down faster too because you come off as impatient or desperate, or that you’re trying to do the song and dance because you have to, not because you want to. I don’t wanna be around a guy like that. That can be very concerning because it can indicate that all you want is sex and you’re just trying to find the right buttons to press on the “sex machine”. I get it, sometimes you just wanna fuck; but I’m a
dragonhuman being, not a sex machine.But… If you want a reason why you shouldn’t be concerned about being friend-zoned: personally I’m more likely to trust and view someone favorably if they’re friends with someone I already know, or they’re surrounded by people who have good things to say about them (especially if they’re enbies and/or women). Doesn’t mean everyone’s like that, but if you have lady friends who enjoy just hanging out with you then that tells me that you’re way more likely to respect me, treat me like a dra… *cough* human, and that I’m probably going to be safe around you. Those are good things. Those are things I need to feel before I can feel anything else. Again, I can’t speak for everyone, but there’s a glimpse into how my feelings seem to work, and why I don’t think you really need to be scared of the “friend-zone”.
Also, when it comes to wanting to “just fuck”; I’m waaaayy more open to that idea if we’re already good friends and neither of us are dating someone. Not everyone is like that, I’m probably kinda unusual in that regard, but… yeah.
Well said. I never worried about the friend zone bc I made my intentions known, “I like you and I want to date.” If she says she’s not into me then that’s it. 9/10 that women will be my “wingman” to find someone that likes me that way.
There’s a clear difference between showing sexual interest and being pushy that I don’t think your post considers.
If you’re dating a women and don’t show any signs of sexual interest she absolutely will be thinking “this guy isn’t interested” and move on.
I don’t think it’s surprising to say that women also are often uninterested in being friends, but it’s still often an expectation that the men will make the first move.
It’s one of the fine lines and grey areas that needs to be trodden in life if you want a satisfying relationship.
I literally just said that what you’re talking about turns me off, and now you’re telling me that you know better than I do?
Fuck being polite: go shove it up your ass.
I know I generalised but I think what I said is mostly true and I’m just as entitled as you are to put my point of view forward, sorry that I have a different opinion.
I’d like to make it clear that I’m not saying it’s OK to be pushy but making a distinction about showing sexual interest that can sometimes be a grey area and a fine line to tread.
If you want to go on a hundred dates with the same person before you’re OK with sexual escalation to make sure someone has pure intentions or whatever, you do you, but it’s not typical and I expect that they’ll move on after enough time of wondering why they’re dating someone that appears frigid or un-interested in sex.
One of my best friends said “if I’m on a third date with a guy and he’s not made a move, he’s probably got a tiny penis”. I know that’s a horrible thing to say and to hear, but it’s true. Most women expect men to make a move at some point and if they don’t, she’ll be wondering what’s wrong.
There’s no need for the hostility, though given the election I understand you’re probably just lashing out and it’s not personal. I hope you feel better soon.
If you want to go on a hundred dates with the same person before sexual escalation to make sure someone has pure intentions or whatever, you do you, but it’s not typical and I expect that they’ll move on after enough time of wondering why they’re dating someone that’s not interested in sex.
No one said hundreds of dates. Hell, if we mesh well enough then it might only take a single date. However, coming up to me and being like, “hey girl, wanna fuck” is only gonna get you somewhere if I either already know (and trust) you fairly well, you have lady friends who I trust and can vouch for your character, or you’re a smoking-hot, literal, honest-to-god anthropomorphic animal person. That’s what I’m talking about. And no, I’m sorry, you’re not a hot dragon-man. As much as I like to pretend they exist, they really don’t.
You don’t even have to say it out loud, if that’s the vibe you’re giving off then I’ll get sketched out. If I feel like you just wanna fuck, then the thought that’ll be going through my mind is: “can I trust what this person says, or are they only saying things to figure out how to get me to open my legs? Am I safe to put myself in their arms and let them fuck me, or should I be concerned that they won’t stop if I tell them to? Will they respect my boundaries and let them shrink naturally as our trust and relationship grows, or should I be concerned that they might injure, abuse or even kill me if I say ‘no’?”
One of my best friends said “if I’m on a third date with a guy and he’s not made a move, he’s probably got a tiny penis”. I know that’s a horrible thing to say and to hear, but it’s true.
*sigh* Here’s the thing though, women who say shit like that really aren’t worth your time. That’s a red flag, dude. That’s a sign that your relationship is going to be potentially based on an unstable foundation. Physical appearance is only temporary. What if you get into a bad car wreck and your penis has to be removed? A girl who’s only about dick size is going to give it some time before walking away. A girl who’s about you will probably be willing to come up with creative solutions to sexy problems and find ways around your lack of manhood (ever considered macguyvering a dragon dildo into a male-compatible strap-on?).
I like a guy who’s willing to be vulnerable, who’s willing to take his time and so on. My view is that’s probably going to result in a much happier relationship than someone who judges based on penis size. Maybe it’s just because I’m not in my 20s anymore and most of the horny teenage hormones have worn off at this point (not that they did me any good, but that’s another story), maybe it’s because I grew up with a Dad who doesn’t like to talk about his feelings and was nearly impossible to read.
However, I’d much rather have a guy who’s willing to talk about how he’s feeling than a guy who wants to fuck on the first date. The latter isn’t going to be able to give me a shoulder to cry on, but the former might (yanno, after he’s done crying on mine lol; which is not a problem). The latter probably won’t share my interests, but the former might.
And you know what, maybe you’re right.
Maybe I’m the weirdo here, for thinking that someone who cares that much about your dick size is shallow as fuck and not worth your time. Small peepee just means there’s all the more reason to get creative with sexy time.
Maybe I’m the weird one for thinking that there’s a difference between a romantic relationship and “a friend you like to fuck” (aka “friends with benefits”).
Maybe I’m the weirdo for thinking people need to be more chill about sex for this exact reason; because I suspect that many people think that the feeling you get from sex or lust is what love is.
There’s no need for the hostility, though I understand you’re probably just lashing out and it’s not personal. I hope you feel better soon.
It’s the “I know better than you” that gets to me. Maybe you didn’t mean that, if so then I apologize. There are a lot of people here, however, who seem to believe they know more about what a woman likes than women do; or they believe that a woman doing what she wants with her body is discriminatory.
For those with a bad understanding of women: women get horny and lonely too, you really think women aren’t gonna struggle with this themselves? The only reason I don’t think I’ll personally struggle with it is because I’m only kiiinda straight lmao. I have other options. Furthermore, however, do you really believe that women don’t know what they want? Maybe they just don’t want you because you throw up all kinds of red flags.
Learn to be empathetic, communicative, caring and respectful. You really don’t want the shallow girls who only care about dick size. They’ll just dump you the moment a guy with a bigger dick comes along or, at the very least, you probably won’t have a very fulfilling relationship. Sex shouldn’t be the goal you’re striving for, sex should be something that happens along the way; and guys who act like it’s the former are a huge turn-off for me.
You make good points. You’re getting the wrong end of the stick but I don’t think it’s worth trying to explaine myself further.
be polite
oh thank god!
Learn how to communicate
4B doesn’t sound like a bad idea to me
Communicate and talk are two different things. People talk to get what they want. Communication means you have to listen and give a shit. So many guys talk for 1 reason, sex. Women want sex to but don’t an asshole that treats them like shit afterwards. Some guys cant get that and think women should be blessed in their presents.
Oh I’m really good at the listening part.
I don’t like the talking part. That’s the part I’m not good at. Or likely will ever be, which is ok. It’s scary.
Not really… from personal experience, I couldn’t find a single woman to date or show interest until I was 25. I was and still am super nice and polite, apparently too much for most.
I fully believe I am just ugly, and it is what it is. After being rejected for so long and never having the chance to have those experiences growing up, it did leave me in a bad place for a while.
Good news is I did meet someone at 25 and we’re married now over 10 years and have 2 kids. This was also right before the rise of dating apps, which I wonder what impact they would have had if given the chance to use them.
Being too nice can definitely be a turn off for women, all though you’re never supposed to say it, if you put them on a pedestal it can lead them to think that they can do better. I know that sounds horrible to say, but it’s mostly true.
A lot of women like “manly men”, in a world where gender roles are being broken down it’s another thing you’re not supposed to say, but it’s objectively true.
Natural beauty is pot luck, although it’s true that “ugly” guys can do a lot to scrub up and become attractive in other ways. Statistically speaking, 80% of women want the top 20% of men, from that you can extrapolate that their are a lot of people in relationships that are settling. Another harsh truth, but that’s life.
So in short, that’s what happens to most of us. Women chase the top 20% which most of us aren’t, then when they start getting worried about getting older and becoming a spinster, they settle. You’re probably a lot less ugly than you think and a lot more normal!
Using statistics and generalizing about women wanting only “top” men is very manosphere of you. Incel forums ban you so you had to come stink up Lemmy with the steaming shit that comes from your mouth or something?
It’s factual. The source is Tinder, 80% of women are only swiping on the top 20% of men and I believe that extrapolates to real life, I also don’t think it’s surprising, I understand why anyone would want an attractive mate. Sorry that upsets you.
Tinder as a source is hilarious.
Whatever the source, I don’t think it’s surprising that women are a lot more selective than men, it makes a huge amount of sense in evolutionary terms.
And given that a small percentage of men are getting chased by the majority of women, it’s unsurprising that they’re used to getting screwed over, causing all men to get cast with the same aspersion.
Women will continue to demand better for themselves and some men will continue to get more radicalized in retaliation until we start raising boys to be empathetic and not sexualizing them so they feel entitled to people’s bodies.
You know what just dawned on me
These guys essentially want sex dolls that can do chores. Sex dolls are way cheaper to take care of and they’ll learn to do chores themselves hiding it from everyone else lol
Imagine a future with sex robots. Good or bad for human women?
Good, eventually. Bad, at first.
Consent and boundaries need to be learned at an early age.
Understanding the emotions of others, and not being at the center of every interaction.
Understanding individual bodily autonomy, and extension of that to others.These all need to be passed on in early life, because they are foundational to ensuring better overall social interactions with the opposite sex, knowing the worth of oneself and others, and being respectful to everyone including oneself.
I would be very interested in understanding how boys are treated differently now then when I was young (millennial here). Why are gen z men so upset?
I’m a Millennial and I’m trying really hard not to judge Gen Z, but they’re more conservative, don’t know how to use tech, can’t sign their name, and can’t tell the difference between reality and conspiracies.
I’m not a parent so I don’t know whether other Millennial parents are the problem, education, or something else but man do they just come off as a bunch of idiots.
Many aren’t, which is part of the problem. There are still people who think beating children is acceptable punishment for change, despite evidence otherwise.
Gentle parenting is one method I’ve seen that has promise.
But when parents don’t actually try to learn how to parent, and don’t understand that they are raising an adult, generational bad behavior repeats itself with little growth.
Meh. I got beat plenty and I’m not a fascist incel.
Not sure but Gen Alpha is scarier to me. Red pill ideologies are ingrained in their culture.
