I wrote the script. You opened a post in a community and downvoted every comment. That’s what the message is telling you
That means you really don’t like the community, fair enough.
I’m gonna jump in here, since there’s some info that might be handy.
See, me and jet have had some disagreements regarding the carnivore diet. I even gave them a bit of hell when the carnivore community was new, objecting strongly to certain posts and their content combined with no sourcing or user friendly way to access sources from lemmy.
I’m pretty sure at one point, I got annoying. I know I was rather, ummmm, direct in my phrasing.
But the real story is that I down voted posts, and comments under posts, when they were misleading or contradicted established best practices to a degree I felt warranted a down vote to reduce visibility/support. I did that part with only minimum contributions otherwise, because I didn’t really want to piss on anyone’s picnic with the frequency I was seeing that kind of thing. Like, I objected to some of the data and conclusions, but the people didn’t really need someone critiquing their dietary choices, you dig? All the folks commenting were just minding their own business and not trying to evangelise, so trying to interfere in their choices would be a dick move.
And I never got banned. Ngl, if I had been running the community and seen the pattern of voting with as little contribution as I was engaging in, I might have banned me.
But, neither actively as a mod, nor via bot, did that happen.
I know that’s just one anecdote, and anecdotes have little value. But it’s why I would have totally called this a YDI if OP hadn’t been batshit and ended up banned here as well.
As far as I’m concerned, jet is a fair and even handed moderator. Might want to tweak the bot a little eventually, but for a niche C/, it seems to do the job it’s intended to do.
I’ve seen your interactions in that community as skeptical but polite. You never attacked a user, or insulted anyone. You contributed occasionally.
Would I have preferred your downvotes also have a question/comment with your concerns? Sure
My guiding metric is to make a safe space where others feel comfortable participating in - and your interactions were inline with that.
At least I managed to present myself in the way intended successfully, skeptical but polite/interested.
I did eventually feel weird voting at all without saying something, so I very rarely do any more. It’s still a very interesting subject, I just don’t have anything useful to say that I haven’t already said in one way or another. Pretty much the same as on vegan, vegetarian, or keto communities tbh. I see them all as valid choices for individuals. So as long as there’s nothing that’s outright false, the most I can do is chime in with existing best practices, and it isn’t like people looking for a specialized diet haven’t seen that information.
I’m happy for you to ask questions, even questions people would already have seen elsewhere. The conversation is good for everyone.
Plus a question about carnivore, being a subset of keto, gets to birds with one stone!
I really like to dig into the science, what is well researched, what can be demonstrated. Heck, I even spent a bunch of time figuring out why the Rice/Potato/McDougall diet works (its inhibition of the Randell cycle (not a cycle)).
I don’t want to give OP the benefit of the doubt here due to their behaviour in this thread, but I’ll ask more for my own curiosity:
Is there a possibility of false positives if you happened to downvote everything from a certain community while browsing c/all, or is there a temporal element as well that’d make that sort of false positive very unlikely?
I’m not a great programmer,
This ban message only happens when someone downvotes a post then opens the post and downvotes all the comments.
Is there a bug? Sure, lots! I haven’t double checked the logs against this user yet. After work
Notice the one thing this user didnt ask for - to get unbanned so they could contribute to any of those communities
downvote everything from a certain community while browsing c/all
If somebody consistently does that, they are not having a great Lemmy experience and they should block the community
Does it do any good for all the atheists to down vote every catholic post? Nobody is benefiting from that behavior
Notice the one thing this user didnt ask for - to get unbanned so they could contribute to any of those communities
Has anyone done so since you started doing this? Given the general circumstances here I don’t expect many would try (esp. w/silent instance ban), nor do I expect a happy mutual outcome.
No one.
This ban message only happens when someone downvotes a post then opens the post and downvotes all the comments.
Does it have a comment threshold? I.e. it feels it would be fairly easy to trigger if there’s just 1 comment in the thread.
Currently it does not, if someone really dislikes a community enough to down vote a post and then go through the effort to open it and also downvote the only comment, it’s a strong signal they are not a good fit for the community
This is only helpful for very small niche communities that get lots of negative attention.
I’m sure it was [email protected], the other comms don’t draw so much ire. There are 3-5 active posters and commenters in that community, we haven’t even reached dozens yet. There are 75 active vegen communities on Lemmy, and 1 carnivore community. So, is it helpful for the 75:1 group to remind the minority group they don’t like them very much every post?
When I was tuning in the behavior, anyone who opened posts to downvote comments would repeat the behavior every new post, and many went through the backlog of posts to do the same. So I took that as a very strong signal it’s a bad community mismatch. Pruning optimization
So far zero people have asked to have the moderator action reversed so they can contribute, or debate… the only feedback has been like this one where a angry person is angry they aren’t allowed to continue to be angry at a tiny community
Currently it does not, if someone really dislikes a community enough to down vote a post and then go through the effort to open it and also downvote the only comment, it’s a strong signal they are not a good fit for the community
My educated opinion as someone writing such automation, is that this is a very flawed approach. All it would take is a post against the community ethos, to ban community regulars who downvoted it. If it has no comment threshold and no validation of the general sentiment of the post in the comm, it can easily lead to false positives.
I strongly suggest you tweak this approach.
My take is someone writing this sort of automation is sick of spending hours each day doing the bans manually
What sort of false positive are you worried about when it only bans people whose only interaction has been negative? Regulars have upvoted stuff if they like the community.
Do you ever visit a community and down vote the first thing you see and intend to return?
Oh I’m sorry, yes, the ban only applies if the account never comments, posts, or upvotes. A strictly negative interaction signal.
I did notice a few accounts upvote something really old before they started to downvote, so my secret sauce has already been guessed
It sounds like a helpful tool, but you might have to use some manual review because I don’t think an automated system can easily avoid all the false positives and false negatives.
I was experimenting with similar stuff that counts mass downvotes, and I think it yields some interesting results.
Does it do any good for all the atheists to down vote every catholic post? Nobody is benefiting from that behavior
Thanks for the insightful reply!
To me, the potential issue could be if it wasn’t a very active community, the user might not even recognise they were doing so from c/all, so you might end up banning someone who didn’t know they did anything wrong. But you’re also right, it could certainly have adverse effects on the community, so totally I get where you’re coming from as well.
didn’t know they did anything wrong
They are not doing anything wrong, but helping people disengage from a bad situation is healthy for Lemmy
I would like better vocabulary around it, instead of a ban, we should have a community unsubscribe, or community block vocabulary
I tried to soften the vocabulary in the mod message. This is not the right community for you
what community? I have no fuckin idea what you are talking about. If I downvoted a bunch of comments, it’s because I legitimately disagreed with them and considered them not constructive. I have never in my fucking life opened a fucking post to down vote everyone in the comments. madness.
If you made the script, the script is fucking broken. Absolute drivel, and absolutely power tripping bastards.
Couldn’t happen to you on Hexbear.
that is the silver lining of hexbear, and the reason I still appreciate the instance, even if the userbase are a bunch of edgelords (not all, but most). Also very funny you came here to make a meta joke about something not related to this thread, I appreciate the effort<3 love you buddy, I hope you are having a great day :D
To be fair - Hexbear has blocked a community I moderate… So that bear still has claws.
Yea, but you can’t downvote on Hexbear, so you can’t get banned for it :D
I think that with the right client you can still downvote on hexbear.
These posts are very difficulty to evaluate, because it could be that the mods are paranoid, and reading the votes wrong, or the bans are legit and you’re just lying about it. 🤷
check my modlog and comment history, I’ve never been on those communities. And since when was voting a bannable offense? One worthy of bans from multiple communities, but only on a single instance? This is your community, what is it for if not this? And what could I possibly be lying about?
It’s one thing to be sceptical, it’s another thing entirely to be wilfully credulous.
You got instance banned, this is how this is displayed on the modlog. You also seem awfully upset about someone saying there’s no way to tell if you’re lying. You need to chill a bit.
Also Not being in those comms won’t prevent you from downvoting everything in them.
Finally I didn’t tell you not to post, nor did I speak as a mod. I just expressed my personal opinion. Your reaction to it however is quite the escalation.
Ps: our instance recently also voted to sanction downvote trolls. So yes, absolutely, some types of voting can get admin attention.
no, an instance ban is different, it reads on a single line and is different from a community ban. this is multiple bans from several communities.
Feels like you are looking for problems here. I didn’t downvote a bunch of random posts on unrelated communities in a single instance, because doing that would be fucking insane.
It’s not like I’m talking about a ban that can be rationalised, I’m talking about a ban that legitimately makes no fucking sense, even if I had some kind of agenda. what would be my reason for mass downvoting unrelated communities on a small server no one has even fucking heard of?
as I said before; It’s one thing to be sceptical, it’s another thing entirely to be wilfully credulous.
Stop being this wilfully credulous on something so clearly open and shut; it should be below you, if you are actually capable of moderating a community. This is ridiculous.
Disengage
oh fuck off, I’ll just make a new account, eat shit cunt. but for the record, I did not mass downvote anything. Fuck you, you powertripping mallcop bitch.
edit: fuckin “DiSeNgAgE”, how embarrassing.
I’ll just make a new account
And I’m sure that with your shining personality you certainly won’t attract the attention of the mods on your new account.
oh fuck off, you arent a mod, you are twat with a small amount of power, thats pretty clear. you got banned because you were a cunt on a previous account so you made this community out of spite. people used it for legit purposes, and most of the time your personality didn’t come out, but I annoyed you, so you’ve gone immediately to bitch mode, abusing the same authority you created this community to cry about.
Fuck you, sincerely. if you want to get into the comments to spout your shitty opinion in future, I suggest you make a separate account for that. At least then you could clutch at the barest reaches of professionalism. What a clown.
The fuck is up with you lmao. Anyways read the instance rules dipshit. YDI.
no, an instance ban is different, it reads on a single line and is different from a community ban. this is multiple bans from several communities.
Lemmy has a feature to issue community bans when issuing site bans to remote users. Also some instances use scripts to apply community bans in tandum with site bans since site bans don’t hard prevent participation in those communities on its own.
CAN YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN INSTANCE BAN AND A COMMUNITY BAN? this is fucking nonsense. fuck you.
well I didnt mass downvote fuck all so back to the drawing board for you.
YDI, what did you expect from going there and downvoting all or even most of the contend there? You are aware that mass-downvoting is considered an act of aggression against communities, as it’s literally an attempt to downrank their content in the feeds. Many instance admins also don’t take kindly to this either, which is probably why they instance banned you from there. This instance that YPTB is hosted on is literally voting for a rule change banning brigading, and many more in the future will likely follow.
If you dislike all of a community’s content, you should use the function to block communities. If you believe it is against the rules you should report it by reaching out to admins. Spamming downvotes won’t help in either case, it won’t make you stop seeing it, and it won’t address problematic or rule-breaking content. It just makes you seem like a bot or a troll.
I did not mass downvote, idiot, read the fucking post.
So if I ask an admin to look through your account’s DB voting history it wouldn’t show a ton of downvotes directed at some Dubvee community, right? I mean you can say yeah but you can’t exactly prove that. And I’ve found that people banned for downvote brigading argue that they weren’t doing it because they’re still under the impression mods and admins can’t see votes. Which we can, and have been for a long time.
yeah go for it, I’d honestly love to see what I did. Please, if thats a thing you can do I’d be very grateful. This thread has been a fucking debacle. what a mistake to take part instead of lurking. If I did something wrong I’d love to know for future reference. fuck me this is exhausting.
Nah, Instead I’m just going to go report your behavior to them. Your behavior here is more than ban-worthy on multiple instances. I’m sure @[email protected] would agree, as it violates the first Primary rule of lemm.ee “No Abusive Language”.
YDI. Mass downvoting is toxic.
ah, so you cant read, easy to ignore, thanks.
You are very welcome.
This person is certainly a troll. He’s just snapping at everyone who tells him something he doesn’t want to hear.
fucker snapped at me for saying it’s impossible to tell if they deserve it.
I don’t know why people think like this. Clearly we can tell if he deserved it, we can pull up all his votes. And even if we couldn’t, snapping at us doesn’t make his credibility go up. It makes him seem more guilty.
Reads: “rule 5 - systematic downvoting.”
Replies: “Well stop downvoting everything.”
This guy: “Ah well I see that you just can’t read then.”
no idea who these guys are, but I’ve not been systematically downvoting anyone.
edit:
ironic :D
all seem to be dubvee.org, is this a potential federation issue?
edit 2: also trans rights, BLM, free Palestine, Ukraine is a sovereign nation, bigotry is wrong. just to be clear, I see a lot of people complaining about being banned and their shitty rhetoric reveals them. I try to be an ally, these bans are not warranted, likely a butthurt right winger.
A bot was likely involved somewhere in the process (and with tons of potential for false positives), possibly even if it picked up something outside of dubvee. Though that is not the automated message (and I suspect they’d stand behind it even if it were a low amount of votes).
Not sure if it’s what you meant, but some of the bans like this stop all of activity from being visible to dubvee users.
Gonna be honest, whether it’s a bot or not, the idea of banning people for voting on posts or comments in some way you don’t like is deeply funny to me.
“YOU’RE INFLUENCING THE MADE-UP INTERNET POINTS THAT DON’T MATTER! EEEEEEK!”
even I’m not so terminally online.
One in that list has 5 or so members and attracts about -20 votes on every post and comment. It’s unpleasant to visit a community where every post and comment is at -15, even if they’re “imaginary points” it makes the community hard to sort
Since Jet started enforcing the “no mass down voting” rule automatically things sit at 0 to +5.
Exactly. It’s not about fake internet points it’s about making a safe space where the lurkers feel comfortable to contribute and participate without getting dogpiled.
It’s very much like growing a garden, it has to be tended to, weeded, and protected from local varmints for the young plants to flourish
The script doesn’t run on my personal community [email protected] because im the only poster and I know internet points aren’t real. I don’t need to encourage others to participate.
I mean if all someone does is go to communities to downvote every single post, it is clear that they are having an agenda, rather than interacting with the content in a fair way.
As there is an algorithm pushing things to “hot” or “active” in the local and all feeds based on votes, it does have an influence on the visibility of posts.
STOP USING THE BUTTONS WE GAVE YOU
The points are made up and thankfully we don’t have similar karma system as reddit, but your overall received upvote/downvote score ratio between a certain timespan is being evaluated by automod bots, because lemmy is still developing better moderation tools.
Info about the one bot I know: https://slrpnk.net/post/11069853
Edit: added word.
Reddit system is pretty oppressive right now, hate to see when lemmy reaches that point
I understand the impetus, but the execution seems to be extremely flawed. If I’m being flagged for mass downvoting, then it flags people who vote no more than around 20-30 times per day. I dont use lemmy a lot, I just browse maybe once or twice a day.
I thought this was something worth mentioning, because it fit the community so obviously. but honestly, after this post, being hounded by the mod of this forum and the twat who wrote the shitty broken script, I’m gonna go back to lurking.
Lemmings sure do have as much of an issue or more with the upvote/downvote system.
Its used really poorly and more of just a litmas test for same think.Truly the title of lemming is appropriate, doubly so since people will likely quote the myth of it here thinking it makes them somehow not a victim of lemming behaviour as used colloquially.
So you would instead be ok with me writing a script that mass downvotes content I don’t like with a few dozen alts so that it doesn’t show up to you?
Because if you want a fediverse that can be exploited by bad actors, I could give it to you. And then you all can enjoy a Lemmy curated by me.
Sounds like someone being careless with their authority to me :D
I am also banned from a ton of dubvee communities for some reason.
I checked my script, that wasn’t me. You are not banned on my non-dubvee communities. ([email protected], [email protected])
That was a instance ban https://lemmy.dubvee.org/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=171320
Unlikely, but are you using an unusual app? Maybe there’s a gesture that is triggering down votes when you’re navigating?
I use vivaldi on my desktop and summit on my phone (great app btw, give it a go if you havent :) )
I’m on Voyager at the moment. Vivaldi is better?
Vivaldi is nice, its chromium but I consider it a holiday from firefox; I’ll either return to gecko or migrate to ladybird when it releases. As far as google based browsers, it’s still memory heavy, but it justifies it with the integrated extras better than opera does.
