UPDATE: The Unbans are showing up on modlog now.:
unban log screenshot
I have traded the month-long ban in the many communities for a 6-day ban in [email protected], which is a more reasonable ban. this ban has also been lifted now. I appreciate the cooperation from the mod over this misunderstanding.
So it seems i’ve gotten a month-long ban in… over 30 communities across lemmy.dbzer0.com, sopuli.xyz, lemmy.ca, programming.dev, and several others, for this comment here.
Screen cap of comment for posterity:
It’s directly replying to a comment saying they can’t imagine why anyone thought otherwise about fish feeling pain, which is reasonable. You might notice the quotation marks, because it’s satirizing people’s mental gymnastics about fishes’ pain perception. It was meant in jest, exclusively.
It seems likely that a single mod took this joke wrong and chose to ban me on every community they have control over.
This is really hilarious but also thanks for sharing all the instances to steer clear of lol
To me the “joke” wasn’t even that funny, more like middle school snark. The whole thing seems like an extreme overreaction.
In my Lemmy?? No fucking way!
I didn’t know PETA modded communities on Lemmy
PETA would send the fish to a kill shelter
This platform just doesn’t get satire or sarcasm, does it?
For most part it does, but there are a small number of people who have established their control over a portion of it and like to wield their authority. So basically like reddit, local politics, and pretty much every social situation.
My most upvoted comments includes a lot of sarcasm, satire, and snark.
Lemmy is the most black and white community I’ve encountered. Nuance is completely fucking lost here and god help you if you try to argue against the prevailing wind.
You dropped the /s.
Tap for spoiler
/s
Imma be banned now.
I’ve seen that said about all online spaces. The reality is that communication is harder than people think. Speakers and writers think their intentions are obviously jovial. Listeners and readers think their intentions were obviously malicious. Tale as old as time.
Just from personal experience: there seems to be an undercurrent of opinion that sarcasm and irony lead us into narcissistic dystopia fast.
As witnessed by the many ironic Redditches that turned bloody fast: There are just too many Psychopaths willing to take over and use it to lure the apparently plentiful masses of stupid people in (Biden-Bro and The-Donald come to mind).
I know certainly myself have tried to make this place less toxic by beeing less sarcastic. It’s not about getting it and more of a conscious choice for me. As a side effect, I feel less bitter or disconnected from my life, so that is a net win.
Do I miss beeing an ironic, sarcastic ass sometimes? Absolutely. But it is not the good place I want to hang out at.
Seems weird that you got banned for a comment but the comment itself wasn’t removed.
Anyway I think bans very often mean, “Your comment made me angry, so as a mod or admin I found a stick I can hit you with.” And when it comes down to it, people who run websites don’t have to publish anything they (or their proxies) don’t like.
Shout out to the time here that I suggested a mod block someone they didn’t what to interact with and their response was “but as a kid I can’t because I need to be able to see their comments” as if that makes using mod powers okay when you personally don’t want to see something lol.
The ban was for a different community. Sunshine saw their comment and went “that person sucks I’ll ban them from my sub[s]”
I don’t think she was a mod where the comment was made
Also she claims she accidentally hit “ban them from everywhere I moderate” instead of “also remove their posts and comments” so maybe the comment would have survived anyway
That’s a fair point. The point of this exercise is to ID people who behave like this so the people can decide if this the level of censorship they are willing to accept.
If not, block offender, and move on. Fedi can accommodate everyone but not every has to interact.
Important distinction - when the government controls what you can say, it’s censorship. When you control what people say on your own website it’s called having a website.
Cute but no.
Censorship is censorship. Sure private party can do it legally but we also can discuss their misconduct and keep track of offenders. That’d the entire point of fedi.
People can make up their own opinions if the censorship is warranted unlike corpo platforms
Y’know, concentrating power in the hands of a single person / group defeats the purpose of decentralisation.
I can understand if the damage is limited to communities within a single instance, but when a ban is so far-reaching - across so many instances - it makes me wonder what’s the point of choosing Lemmy over, say, Reddit.
It’s still the same problem again, just with different people in charge - like Bluesky vs Twitter.
lemmy fixes admin abuse, not mod abuse.
It doesn’t “fix” admin abuse either - see feddit.org situation. It only helps with admin abuse as the bans apply to part of the universe rather that to the entire Lemmy.
Yes, that’s how it fixes it. You cannot be banned from lemmy, only individual servers.
That is not “fixing”. It is partial remedy.
Life isn’t perfect.
Sadly.
If it were perfect for you, how many more would find it intolerable? Ideally, we can live and let live. Life isn’t ideal, either.
I think it’s as much of a fix as is possible. If your problem is the owner or admin of the server your best solution is to leave. On reddit that meant leaving reddit. On lemmy it means you have to find another instance
On lemmy it means you have to find another instance
My understanding is it works slightly differently.
It means that all users of an instance which banned you won’t be able to see your comments even if these are made on another instance. It therefore stops you from participating with all the users of the instance which banned you, even on other instances.
Thus my comment about the limited remedy.
How is it only a partial remedy?
Because you still can be banned across individual servers so multiple communities, sometimes very large - and there isn’t anyone who can unban you when it happens.
I don’t see any solution to that that doesn’t end up horribly.
Yeah, the problem of modreach is definitely not a solved problem. The other problem, of all discourse being directly controllable from on high by a profit-driven company, however, is solved by lemmy. I believe that was the original issue lemmy was meant to handle. And that problem does seem to be solved. We’ll just have to handle the problem of public official reach the way we normally would.
There’s a fine line and I guess it can happen when one isn’t experienced enough or jaded.
For example, I don’t think banning pitbull or staffie dogs is great. They are loving, loyal dogs if well-socialized by someone with the time, temperament, and consistency to do so. Banning these beautiful animals often means they are sent to shelters and euthanized wholesale, because they can’t be placed . They didn’t ask to be born, either.
Nonetheless, when I saw a pinned post in the"Ban Pit Bulls” community, I refrained from posting, even if it did seem rather an incongruent view alongside militant veganism. I’d already argued my points which were vehemently rejected.
But yptb just seems like a lot of whining by people unable to self-soothe and self-validate, imo, and I know people are going to be extremely offended by my saying so.
When was this? The one I used to see in All got new moderation (the mod being discussed) who introduced, what I thought, were reasonable rules to encourage actual discourse.
I get what you’re saying about it before but, assuming they’re being fairly enforced, I assume it’s got to be better there now.
Oh that’s encouraging. Maybe I missed it before. I don’t currently own any, but I’m still ok with the breed in general.
We do and I feel like you do. That’s why that community used to bug me so much.
I learned first hand that having a pit or pit mix is a lot different and they take a very patient owner and consistent method of training.
Yes, they can be stubborn! That said, I’ve been guilty of that.
Mods can accidentally hit the ban all option on the Tesseract frontend. Accidents do happen.
Distrust me if you want to.
how did OP get banned in servers from so many different instances?
Not every ban is done in good faith like op has rightfully called out.
that is not an answer to the question I asked
Tesseract has an option to ban an user across multiple comms.
Just say the truth, you wanted punitive action. Now go ahead and ban me as well on any way communities you mod I don’t want to ever hear of you
thats why lemmy needs to adopt a crowd sourced, prestige based moderation system and get rid of individual mods
Like each person could vote things up or down, and if they vote them up they get more attention and down votes would bury the content!
No, that is just regular upvoting and downvoting.
A prestige based system takes into account previous voting based on community outcomes, and aggregates over time a running value that represents how effective that particular user has been to matching the zeitgeist of the community. So the more someones posting and voting pattern appeals to the community that they occur in, the more ‘valuable’ that person’s vote is
So a person that has been consistently uploading content that other viewers consider quality gets more community prominence and their votes are weighted more than a person who just showed up yesterday or someone who consistently posts divisive and unwanted content as decided by the community
Does this mean that some communities will get taken over by bad actors? Yes, but then you just leave the community, or start an initiative to change the zeitgeist of the community. The thing is, NOW those bad actors don’t get a free pass just because one of their friends worms their way into modding BECAUSE there are NO mods.
Lastly voting just up and down is so 2010, as much as I fucking hate Buzzfeed their tagging system is the start of something good, but they don’t do much useful with that info but aim for virality.
So a multi dimensional voting space based off of tag clouds where the user can refine the kind of content they view based off of others reactions such as ‘funny, informative, shocking, wholesome’ and even negative tags like ‘outrageous, unhelpful, argumentative’ just to name a few.
TL;DR: The longer and more often any given user’s contributions are considered positive by a community, the more power that user has to shape the future of the community.
I can see how your modlog got so full. Are you always like this? How do you get but in the real world?
Yeah no, this would not work well. Minorities often experience being downvoted in great number and out-ratioed by those that have no understanding of what they go through (your regular lemmy user). It would just result in the ultimate echo chamber where largely only liberal white cishets have anything to say. At least as things are now queers can have a queer instance and feel safe there, even if things are not ideal.
Sorry no, it’s clear no one here is capable of rational thought. Maybe consider researching what a prestige based moderating system is.
Tell us rather than insult us? There’s nothing useful on the first page of results if I search for “prestige based moderating system” in duckduckgo.
Why shouldn’t I insult you?
Literally every idea I’ve ever shared on lemmy that wasn’t 100% mainstream accepted resulted in hours to days of harassment and comment stalking with zero mod support. None of you want to expand your understanding of anything, you just want your biases confirmed.
You can check my fucking post history if you think I’m lying.
You get what you give, and that’s a lot of anger and vitriol. People would be a lot more willing to listen to you if you didn’t constantly get upset and rage at everybody and pretend like you’re above everyone else. If it smells like shit everwhere you go, check your shoe.
If it smells like shit everwhere you go, check your shoe.
Oh so what you’re saying is reddit isn’t getting fascist, I’M the fascist.
Clever
or no, the opposite
Why shouldn’t I insult you?
Brah, I was all for giving you the benefit of the doubt till you said this. Lighten up.
Nah, because any mod that didn’t subscribe to groupthink would get banned by you all.
Crowd sourced moderation squashes small voices, squashes unpopular voices. It’s not a good solution
So what you’re saying is you don’t understand what prestige based moderation is? Ok. And no I’m not wasting my time educating your intellectually dishonest ass
You do seem to be putting a lot of effort into telling people they don’t know what you’re talking about rather than telling people what you’re talking about
And calling me a liar? I made it clear which part of your comment I was addressing.
I have spent years trying to be a contributor on the internet, adding my perspective and understanding.
And never once has it been worth it
Every time people like you descend to mock and jeer and deliberately misunderstand, and hardly ever do the mods do anything but work against me.
For a few weeks I thought lemmy would be different, but no you guys are actually worse and even more echo chambered.
I’m glad you’re trying and I hope you get past your anger
That’s quite extreme. PTB.
I meant to just ban them from the vegan community on db0. I will reverse this.
also not justifiable. your bans are ridiculous
How does someone accidentally ban people across multiple communities and instances? Is there a ban from everything I moderate button?
Yes
Not everything is done with bad intentions.
why not have another mod double check the ban before it goes through?
Ir Reddit taught me anything is that anyone who mods more than one community is physiologically incapable of having good intentions.
There’s 2 ticks on the Tesseract menu when you want to ban an user from interacting with your community without directly looking for their comments and I accidentally hit the bottom option instead of the top one.
Take at that what you will.
I’ll bet that’s handy for taking care of spammers!
much appreciated, that makes more sense.
Sorry about that, I definitely ate the onion in that situation.
Hey, misunderstandings happen. I also jumped the gun a bit by posting in PTB first rather than contacting you directly first.
That makes more sense :D I withdraw my PTB for a BPR since it does seem you misunderstood their comment.
Yikes, a mass ban over multiple communities for that? PTB
Ada used to do this too before people started speaking up
Mods and admins will always find a way to trip over the smallest amount of power.
You have no right to attack Ada for that.
I do, she’s been a bad admin who’s made petty decisions and deserves to be criticized
It is reddit modding behavior. They are censoring people they don’t like
Post: <Something really stark and depressing>
Commentor: <Cavalier snark and callous joke>
Admin: “Wow, this person seems like a piece of shit. Ban”
Banned Commentator: climbs up on cross “I am being persecuted to death.”
Another person bitching about civility on Lemmy, and oh look! It’s a .world user. How shocking.
<Cavalier snark and callous joke>
if this is all takes to be censored online… we are fucked
Yeah, I’m flexitarian, but celebrating or taking lightly the suffering of other beings just isn’t my thing.
The ban across multiple communities is not intentional. I just meant to ban them from [email protected]. I was not used to Tesseract’s ui. But even that was definitely jumping the gun upon rereading the joke.
Why would you ban them from !vegan though, considering the comment was made in another community entirely? Even if we assume the comment was serious, you’re basically saying the rules of the !vegan comm extend across the fediverse.
Because it was meant to be punitive.
Ridiculous more like.
Did the punitive action work ?
It made the punisher feel a thing 🤡
The op’s comment was fine. My thought process was to avoid problematic users from entering a community they’re not ready to respectfully engage with, no one should have to explain themselves to the individuals who are engaging in bad faith. Notice how the bans are temporary.
Sunshine, this is problematic on so many levels, I’m not even sure where to start :/
Not a fan of preemptive strikes for comments or posts made in different communities…
If the posts in other communities show an intent to cause disruption for a specific topic, they do make sense. As in they take the initiative to cause disruption, posting bacon pics in a vegan or vegetarian community, going into an LGBTQ+ space to spread homophobic or other hateful messaging.
Banning because they made a joke in some other unrelated sub that could just be sarcasm? That is just fishing for users to ban.
If the posts in other communities show an intent to cause disruption for a specific topic, they do make sense.
I’d rather have the ability to flag these potentially disruptive users and have their posts being held up in a moderation queue for those communities.
That way if they behave, they can participate, if not they at least the posts / comments were filtered away and didn’t reach the entire userbase, minimizing harm while giving them the benefit of the doubt.
“I fucked up, but I shouldn’t have to explain myself”
Shameful coward.
Credit to you, sister. Coming here, updating your opinion and reporting it, is awesome. We need more mods like that.
PTB, if you were banned from vegan Comms I wouldn’t really care, but a joke getting you banned from multiple non related Comms over several instances? Now that is crazy
It’s like the crossbans of reddit. As soon as you either comment and get banned from a sub, other subs that don’t like your subs preemptively ban you
PTB, if you were banned from vegan Comms I wouldn’t really care,
I would. He absolutely shouldn’t be banned from vegan community for something he wrote in a different community.
I thought i had a perm ban from them when i called them hypocrites for not caring for the feelings of vegetables. Saddly it was not
They went too light on you
But i was honestly serious. How can they talk about animals feelings when not even looking at plants feelings. Again im 100 percent serious.
10/10 ragebait
Nope. No /s or anything.
Because by eating animals one consumes more plants by proxy. That being said, getting eaten is a core part of many plants lifecycle. Same is true for a lot of animals, but to a lesser extent. On particular for domesticated animals this argument falls apart a little. But they still exist to be eaten and are advantaged evolutionarily if they are good at that. Adverse effects like diseases and pollution do exist.
Some people are gonna give you grief about this, but you raise an interesting point. I was just talking about this the other day with my gf and my son over a vegetarian dinner we were having. There is more and more research about plants be more intelligent (for lack of better word) than we thought before. Still kinda taboo in science circles, but it is being discussed and looking into.
I mean plants do communicate distress, so I can see that. While we haven’t evolved to live solely on sunlight, suffering will happen. That we are aware and only take what’s needed, with respect seems correct.
You don’t even need plants with feelings. Grain fields carry all the field animals like rabbits and rodents. Those animals flee from cleared land into long grass
So as combine harvesters clear the fields the animals are concentrated into smaller and smaller areas
Harvester operators call the last acre ‘the bloody acre’ due to the number of animals cut up by the harvester blades
You can’t eat without animal deaths unless you go to the extreme of just eating fruit you pick yourself
Also the monoculture fields are destroying the land. We need permaculture solutions and there isn’t a way to do that without animals to fertilize the land
And whos to say if that means something less then how we feel. Plants are a living being and should be givin as much or as little respect as anything else.
Rocks and water too, imo. Different discussion, different place. Goodnight everyone.
the… scales… of justice are often harsh
But fair when they are gill-ty
Only with de-fin-itive evidence
looks like they’re letting him off the hook tho!
The mod in common across all these servers is @[email protected] and her other alternate accounts on various servers.
Sunshine, if you see this, this is a pretty overkill response from you over what is a joke about the lengths people go to to lie to themselves. If you’re thinking it was a bad joke still deserving a ban, at least diminish the sentence length down from a month to a few days instead. I will edit the post to communicate the lessened ban length.
Sunshine has a history of power tripping, and is able to avoid attention for it by using alts. As Beaver, they put the lemmy.world vegan community in trouble with admins over that vegan cat food drama, then later banned respected members of the community for “downvoting vegan comments”. They were ostensibly de-modded when another mod spoke up, but if memory serves they actually still had their Sunshine alt on the mod list months later.
Beaver is sunshine, or what?
Finkle is Einhorn?
Yeah, sorry if I wasn’t clear about that. Here’s another post with some unrelated drama that mentions a few of their known alts:
It’s OK Sunshine, JayDee’s made out of styrofoam.
I’m sorry, but you’re banned from every community I moderate now.
After the ‘update’ I’m still confused how that is even worth a 6 day ban from the vegan community.
They also walked that back a bit after.
Right but 6 days for that makes vegans look absolutely nuts.
Inb4 I’m banned for being anti vegan I’m literally 20 years vegan
Sunshine is absolutely nuts.
You have defended tankie vegans before in the past vis-à-vis vegantheoryclub.org
I was genuinely confused what you were talking about and then i remembered this post which you either recalled or went through my comment history.
Either way, i have no idea what you thought your comment would achieve. I have no interest in defending tankies so please don’t pull stuff out of context. I simply disagreed that the entire server was auth. And we can disagree on that, tbh, i have very little interest in debating it because it doesn’t change that:
- im not auth.
- again, i have no interest in defending tankies
I hope this is clear enough for us to be civil together.
How do you know if someone is vegan? They’ll tell you.
Original joke. I mentioned it here because it is relevant. The mod in question power trips and lacks good judgment.
But thanks for that hams
Thanks. I’ll be here all week.
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/modlog/1485815?page=1&actionType=All
IMHO this mod is out of control
That is golden 😂
Wow, they’re just blatantly banning people who said something they disagree with now.
Stay away from the vegan comms until you learn how to engage the topic in good faith
Lol ok powermod. PTB. Doubly so for banning over a comment on a totally seperate instance & community.
It’s a vegan community. If I see users who are anti-vegan I don’t want them on my community.
Some people go out of their way to antagonize the users on blahaj.zone or [email protected] defending their poor actions saying “Well its on all feed so I can make my unwelcomed comments and don’t you dare force your comm rules on me” without reading your sidebar rules.
Cope, this was a mass ban for a fairly mild joke on a entirely different space and wasnt even touching your vegan community in the slightest.
They very clearly were not on the vegan com at the time of the comment so the example given is a false equivalency.
Petty reddit powermod behaviour.
You’ve only walked this back as well due to the mass backlash stemming from this post.
Lets agree to disagree. Goodbye and have a nice day.
No not really, I’ve seen you pulling shit like this for a while now and the sheer number of popular communities you control is frankly concerning.
This is exactly how we end up with a Lemmy version of awkward the turtle.
I admitted I wrong, I reversed the ban, I explained why it happened. Please stop with the assuming the worst, when I just wanted to have communities where I can post on my liked instances. I dont understand why this fascination of assuming the worst.
Please leave me alone.
I’m not anti-vegan
I only engage in good faith.
Fuck, i liked Sunshine too…
PTB
Glad they at least reversed it after getting caught
And here I had them blocked within about a week of them showing up.
Oh yeah … that mod. Not the first time they did that, but this might be the pettiest one, yet.
PTB for sure.
