The bitter nationwide debate over transgender rights is playing out on a very personal level in a federal court lawsuit filed in Virginia by a former Liberty University employee. She was fired by the evangelical Christian school after disclosing her identity as a transgender woman.
The lawsuit on behalf of Ellenor Zinski was filed in July by the American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia and the Richmond law firm of Butler Curwood. It alleges that she was fired last year from her job on Liberty’s Information Technology help desk solely because of her gender identify, in violation of the U.S. Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Earlier this month, the conservative legal organization Liberty Counsel filed a brief on behalf of the university asking the federal district court to dismiss the lawsuit. The brief contends that the Civil Rights Act explicitly permits religious educational institutions to make employment decisions consistent with their religious doctrine — in this case a doctrinal statement asserting that “denial of birth sex by self-identification with a different gender” is sinful.
See I’d care more if she was fired by GE or Target or something, but… What did she expect? This is basically like announcing you’re getting married to a black woman at the Klan rally, and then wondering why they’re tying your neck to a tree.
I mean I don’t wanna play “Blame the victim”, but, come the fuck on…
Civil liberties don’t vanish because a place delcares itself Christian…
Tell that to the Christians
Gladly. Freedom of religion goes both ways. They are free to practice their religion for the same reason they are not allowed to punish people for not following it.
Christians have a great history of not forcing their faith on people, right? It isn’t a core tenant of Abrahamic faiths or anything.
I realize that, but… still
I mean I don’t wanna play “Blame the victim”, but, come the fuck on…
You can’t say you don’t want to do something then proceed to do it. I mean, you can but obviously if you didn’t want to play the card you could have chosen not to play it.
That’s coming from someone that commits the same sin at times but I’m trying hard to curb that.
If you’re going to say you don’t want to do something just don’t do it.
Also, our civil liberties should be protected everywhere, the institution is in the wrong here. Just because someone has a particular gender identity should not matter.
You can both feel sorry for somebody who got mugged and note that taking a shortcut through that dark alley with a wallet full of cash was a bad idea with a foreseeable outcome
I never quite understand what drives people to align with such institutions but I assume it’s not for anything positive. It’s okay for evangelical xtians to be unpleasant until you become the target has been my experience with such people.
Sometimes you just have to work at places that are hostile to trans people, and you just have to hope they don’t find out you’re trans. If the only place that you can find a job in your field is at a Christian College, maybe you’ll accept the job and hope for the best. Potentially losing a job at some point in the future is better than not having a job today.
I’m not trans so I can’t speak to that particular demographic but I’ve found evangelical xtians to be deeply unpleasant to most people who deviate from what they perceive as the norm. I do everything possible to avoid being anywhere near them as a result.
You’d suck that up real fast if you had no money and the only place in 6 months thats hiring in your field is a -tian college/school/church/etc.
Cause a persons gotta eat and pay bills.
You just gotta love that this place is called “liberty”, a place where you’re free to do whatever you want as look as you only do the things a tiny group of people allow you to do.
The one thing that really REALLY disgusts me beyond anything is just the sheer hypocrisy on the right / conservative side. They break all the rules, they commit all the crimes, and immediately turn around and accuse the “other side” of doing exactly what they just did, and then call themselves “liberty” or " law abiding" or some shit like that. It soooo grinds my gears…
If you’re going to be evil, then at least fucking own it. At least call yourself a dictator, at least call yourself a religious terrorist. Say what you want about al Qaeda, but at least they know they’re evil and they don’t pretend to be a loving sweet group of happy campers.
Say what you want about al Qaeda, but at least they know they’re evil
I’m pretty sure they think they’re the good guys.
Everybody is the hero in their own movie.
Gangster Capitalism has a great podcast series on Liberty University for those interested.
Enforcing their religious views on employees, even if they turn out to have that right, is so morally wrong.
So I could make up a random relgion, which seems legal in the US (see scientology) and then I would be allowed to discriminate based on my religious beliefs which I totally made up.
That lawyer’s argument is crazy.
In Oklahoma, you don’t even need a religion. Not wanting to employ trans people is a valid reason to be fired. I have lost garbage DAY LABOR gigs for being trans.
They also made it illegal to be a trans teacher, and no federal agency seems at all interested in looking into it. I’m surprised this woman has been able to get a lawsuit off - I’ve been looking for someone to take mine for three years!
I mean the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a real church, so is the Church of the Dude. They are official and legally recognized religions. More than anything, you need a documented set of beliefs that you espouse and to register your organization.
Lol, John Oliver did exactly that https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Perpetual_Exemption
Why make up a religion, when you can join an already established one, and then foment a schism? The Church of the SubGenius welcomes all heretics.
On one hand fuck them for discriminating, on the other hand thats like getting fired from the proud boys as a Jew and being shocked.
I do see where you are coming from, but the overriding principle for me is that everyone has a right to freely express their identity in public and should not receive discrimination for it under any circumstances, even if they have a questionable choice in employers.
Obviously but it would seem easier to ban hate groups
It just shows how difficult it is for a trans person to get a job in the U.S. when she was desperate enough to take a job at a fascism indoctrination mill.
If I hadn’t spent 2 decades becoming self sufficient for exactly this reason, I would be SOL. The machining world is absolutely full of bigoted assholes.
I wish Dems would start spitting fire and come out with an ad going through the list of prejudices throughout our history.
"Native Americans / Aborigines? Italians? Jews? Asians? Blacks? Latinos? Women voting? Gay? And now trans?
Isn’t it always something? When will we all see the pattern here that these witch hunts always fall on the wrong side of history. And they’re always perpetrated by the same sort of people - not grouped by the color of their skin race or religion, but of profound ignorance rooted in fear of the unknown. Cutting across every other adjective used to divide us, we are ALL human."
Side note but my god I still think of that Bernie Sanders ad from his 2016 campaign, Vote Together.
The problem right now is that there are a bunch of bigots who vote Democratic and the margins are sliver-thin.
Maybe they would actually get more voters if they did that, but I don’t know that they necessarily would. I think the people who have given up on the Democratic party would say, “too little, too late.”
There’s also the problem that the party is being run by a bunch of elders who have paleolithic moral compasses.
Fair point. I feel Immediately following elections Democrats need to pivot into this one-part educational teacher mindset to dispel common myths on us history and civics (eg, “The Dems were the slavers!”), and one-party activism. Every election cycle we fall for the trap of letting the blind lead the blind. To carve out they winning electorate by whatever means necessary as you say. But when do we actually try to nudge Americans in the right direction? This is what I commended Warren or Sanders for because they built a movement around where the country needed to go through facts and conviction and persuaded people.
Democrats rarely persuade and equally fall for whatever bullshit narrative Republicans design.
You sound like me almost 25 years ago.
This is how things are. This is how they will always be. We will ALWAYS have to fight to keep people from being hated and excluded, especially in ourselves as we look at the people trying to do the excluding and our knee-jerk is to exclude them.
I wish I had the answer so we could skip the hard work and live together in harmony. I worry there just is never an easy answer or change in tactics or shift in messaging - it’s just living your whole life with bravery and kindness, as hard as that gets at times.
especially in ourselves as we look at the people trying to do the excluding and our knee-jerk is to exclude them.
Gonna have to disagree here. This is the “paradox” of intolerance (not really a paradox). These people have no place in modern society, and this type of behavior and ideology should 100% be excluded.
If you read the article, you’d know it wasn’t desperation. It was an institution she admired and specifically wanted to work there. It’s even sadder than being desperate. She was already indoctrinated into the cult that hates her for who she is.
And yet, without such people, these institutions will never change. If you want these institutions to be non-hateful, you have to get non-hateful people into them. We’re not going to get rid of Liberty University any time soon. And I would prefer to see it grow into a non-bigoted institution than to have it remain a bigoted institution indefinitely.
leopardsatemyface.jpg
I was about to say, why the fuck would you work for a Christian organization if you are trans? It’s like being black and working for the KKK.
Not all Christian organizations would have an issue. However the conservative ones, which are unfortunately the majority, would.
It depends what kind of Christianity you’re dealing with. Where I live, most of the churches have rainbow flags on display with “everyone’s welcome here” messages and lost of leftish liberals with fairly progressive views. Some even put pro-LGBTQ+ messages on their signs that call people out for bigotry. But Liberty University isn’t that kind of Christianity.
Gee, it’s almost as if their religion’s name patron had preached to love and forgive each other and aid the poor and downtrodden. Crazy thought.
There must be a bunch of episcopalians in your area
Yup. A lot of churches have the stance of “love thy neighbor. Did I fucking stutter?” and it’s very refreshing after decades of nonstop hate. Not saying the hate isn’t still out there, but we’ve come a long way even in the past 10 years.
love thy neighbor
I guess Jesus didn’t consider his neighbor’s slaves to be neighbors as well… Or is there something about a slave that makes them not need love like other humans?
I am quite certain that the churches I’m talking about are adamantly against slavery.
I think he’s referring to Jesus’ pro-slavery stances.
I don’t see how that’s relevant to the conversation
Not at all. If these people actually read the Bible they’d be completely fine with trans people. They don’t, they just make up shit to fit their preexisting beliefs and then call themselves Christian.
If they read the bible they’d shut up about telling other people what to do in general
I’m just amazed they didn’t figure it out sooner. She does look like she can pass, but I’m still amazed. You would think a place so paranoid of atheist librul indoctrination would run background checks before they hire anyone. Unless a background check wouldn’t turn up her deadname, I guess…
Unless a background check wouldn’t turn up her deadname, I guess…
It absolutely would. There might not be anything specific about gender identity, but it wouldn’t be too hard to do the math.
I think it’s more likely that they don’t do background checks, because they don’t want to appear on c/priestarrested.
it wouldn’t be too hard to do the math.
I think you severely overestimate their ability to do math.
That’s not a bad guess.
I’m a proguessive.
I see what you did there. And, I like it!
