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TBH I’d be afraid of them learning anything with headlines telling them to blame Palestine supporters and Minorities.
The reality is even worse. They’re going to “learn” all the wrong lessons. They will shift further to the right, like they always do.
The only ones that need to learn are the vile pieces of shit that chose to throw their vote away or not even vote. A politician doesnt give them all they want so they sacrifice the planet. Lowest of the low. Same kind of trash as maga
Would you prefer they DID vote for Trump? I voted for Harris because she was the only real option but after what the DNC keeps doing (see: fucking Bernie in the primaries and then not even having a primary this year) I really can’t blame anyone for not voting. The Dems need to have their come to Jesus and remember that the people don’t owe them anything.
I dont make a difference whether they voted for Trump or not. They both picked fascism. Primaries dont mean shit especially if they already have a president a power. It was a mistake to have Biden run again but that doesnt excuse not voting for democracy
Which do you think is better? Dems giving people what they want to earn their vote or trump winning?
Dems cant give people what they want because everyone wants different things.
What do you think is better? Preventing fascism or doing nothing and watching a fascist get into power?
Medicare for all or universal healthcare is incredibly popular. Peace is also popular.
Spectacular example of avoiding the question but answering it with it. You want to watch the fascism
What do you think is better? Preventing fascism or doing nothing and watching a fascist get into power?
I think preventing fascism is better which is why I want a popular candidate because that’s the best way to prevent fascism
We know that Biden’s/Harris’ 2024 Campaign failed to produce enough turnout to win against Fascism. What could they have campaigned on to improve turnout? Universal healthcare is one of the many popular progressive policies, popular for both Democratic and Republican voters, that they could have ran on but decided not to.
How to Win a Swing Voter in Seven Days
“The View” Alternate Universe: Break From Biden in Interviews, Play the Hits in Ads
How Trump and Harris Voters See America’s Role in the World
Majority of Americans support progressive policies such as higher minimum wage, free college
Democrats should run on the popular progressive ideas, but not the unpopular ones
Here Are 7 ‘Left Wing’ Ideas (Almost) All Americans Can Get Behind
Finding common ground: 109 national policy proposals with bipartisan support
Progressive Policies Are Popular Policies
Tim Walz’s Progressive Policies Popular With Republicans in Swing States
Every single third party protest vote could have gone to Harris and she still would have heavily lost. She managed to even lose the damn popular vote by five million votes, despite Trump having a lower turnout than 2020.
This wasn’t because people voted third party, this was because at a time when incumbents have seen massive pushback across the globe from Covid inflation and Biden was unpopular across the board she ran as completely the same as Biden but even more Right on the border.
At a time when the politically disconnected working class families that make up the record trunout in 2020 were struggling with wage stagnation, erosion of Covid gains, and greedflation eroding their savings and pensions, four more years of the same but we’ll adopt even more Republican policies and look how many rich Republicans like us was never going to get the everperson off the damn couch.
More of the same is not a good platform for ‘progressives’ during economic hardship, even if it was out of their control and less hardship than most peer nations.
Even though Trump is a disaster for many of us, most people got though his first four years just fine, and don’t understand just how much damage he did or how much more he could do if the guardrails failed.
Getting the general public out to vote requires giving them something they want to vote for, and when the biggest thing you can point to doing or wanting to do more of is some clean energy related tax breaks that is a major problem.
Had the Dems impeached Clarence Thomas for his and his wife’s role in Jan 6, had Biden improved the immigration system like promised, had he provided free National Guard abortion clinics on federal land, had he made the FDA make puberty blockers and abortion medicine available by teleheath and mail, or indeed had any major victories in the last half of his term to show, we would not be here. Had they run AOC, Bernie, Waltz, or anyone at all who could articulate a platform beyond four more years of the same, we would not be here. Had Harris focused on how she could use left wing policy to fight the effects of late stage capitalism, we would not be here.
This election was an unforced error of the highest consequences, and one brought about by a political party that was so confident that until he dies of old age every politically disinterested Amarican would be so scared by the threat of Trump that they would maintain an unprecedented level of voter turnout without them having to actually do or promise anything.
I blame third party AND non voters. They and MAGA are all the same kind of scum who sacrificed your democracy.
…i’m not sure that’s how one builds a coalition…
There wont be a coalition with fascists. You had the vote between fascism and no fascism. If you choose that you dont want to vote for either you support fascism.
Enjoy the unfettered fascism, then, since you refuse to even find allies to fight against it.
Luckily I dont live in the US. But I have family there so I think its terrible people who didnt vote ruin their lifes and future like that. Non voters are no allies. They chose fascism. They are the enemies and there wont be another free election thanks to them and all the Maga garbage who are both on the same level
Then, you’ll deal with this over and over until America becomes a completely fascist nation. That’ll teach those third party and non-voters. At least you’ll have your moral high ground, right?
America already will be a completely fascist nation thanks to the fascist enabling non voters
Not yet, it’s not completely fascist yet, but with the way you’re acting, there’s not going to be any significant resistance towards the US becoming a completely fascist country since you’re more interested in blaming each other instead of learning from your mistakes and work together to be better. What a defeatist mindset you have.
It will be completely fascist in January. And its thanks to non voters. They deserve all that is coming.
They don’t care so yes it is on them also. Wasn’t it 10million plus less voters then last time.
20 million. And yes they all deserve it.
Well said. As soon as Harris started parading Biden around on campaign events and talking about “we love you Joe” I knew it was over. It doesn’t matter that a lot of the circumstances were out of his control, to many people Biden’s term is associated with hardship. The Dems had a unique opportunity to sidestep the issue by having Harris position herself as a separate candidate, distancing herself from the Biden administration and pushing a narrative of her having different and new ideas for the country. Instead they tried themselves to the status quo in a moment where the everyman is suffering and it pulled them down like a boat anchor.
It’s a damn embarrassment, and the whole world is left weeping. Fucking hell.
And this is one of the reasons why people shifted Republican in this last election.
If the Democratic party won’t represent Democratic ideals, then out of either anger or apathy, their base will vote for the party that can do it better, Republicans, or not vote at all.
I agree with a lot of people on Lemmy that the average American is an idiot, and our shortening attention spans coupled with our changing media diets isn’t helping with that, but I see these as features not bugs.
Americans in general like their shiny toys, and one of the best ways to capture their attention is by politicians giving concessions and offering things that will benefit their lives. Think carrots on sticks more than sticks themselves.
I will never stop hanging most of the blame on the Democratic party for leading us to today conclusion after Tuesday.
Wait, you think the republicans represent democratic ideals better…?
They pretend better
There is no way to read or infer that from their comment without some serious preconceived notions. That person made a statement of fact. They did not say anything about their opinion on the goodness or badness of that statement of fact.
If the Democratic party won’t represent Democratic ideals, then out of either anger or apathy, their base will vote for the party that can do it better, Republicans
That’s where I’m getting that exact sentiment
People didn’t shift Republican in this election.l, Trump got about the same number of votes as he did against Biden.
no, but everyone wants to pretend that everyone became ultra-super racist idiot trump voters over the course of 4 years because they listened to a lot of joe rogan, rather than listening to a bunch of CNN like good little vote piggies. see one infographic of a bunch of red arrows everywhere and then everyone loses their fucking minds and decides that the only way to win the next election is to become more racist. if only they tack to the right harder, then they’ll win, they just need to be more racist, see, and then it’ll work!
and the problem is that this is exactly the lesson they want to learn. it’s the lesson they have an interest in learning because they are also a right wing party. maybe it’s because there’s just gonna be more posters running around two days after the election because this is the top drama and it’s eating up time they otherwise would’ve spent talking about celebrity drama or whatever, but we can talk for years about how the democrats, anywhere else, would be a center-right party of neoliberal warmongers that are fundamentally unwilling to give positive material concessions to basically any of their voters. as soon as the election gets called, that all vanishes, suddenly they’ve run the most perfect campaign of all time, and really, it was the voters that were at fault, and if anything, they should be more racist. it’s not that the economy sucked, that they didn’t present an enthusiastic, optimistic, or hell, coherent, vision of the future. no, it’s because they just weren’t racist enough.
it’s 2016 all over again. the punishments will continue until morale improves, time is a flat circle, and I keep falling down the stairs.
do’h
Yep, every time Dems can’t get enough votes from the left to win, because they aren’t “left/pure enough” for them, what they learn is to shift to the right to find votes.
Whereas since voters on the right will always vote for the one with the R by their name even if they don’t think the candidate is “right enough”, their party learns that it doesn’t have to move to the left to find enough votes and stays to the right or moves even further to the right.
…you don’t win over conservatives by offering light-conservatism, but the democratic party have run the same playbook since 1992…
I don’t think you understand their point. Republicans always turn out to vote for their candidate. Then they win (at least a good portion of the time) and they vote in primaries and move the party further right. For any evidence just look at the past 2 decades.
Whereas the left just decides to sit out and therefore Dems lose (or only win at odd times.) They can’t count on leftist/apathetic voters, so they go towards where they think they can get votes (ie. people who always vote and if they do convert enough they are profiting by gaining one vote for them and removing one from Republicans.)
Now everyone here is saying it’s soooo obvious that it’s a poor strategy but is there any introspection on behalf of the left/apathetic? How has withholding your vote or not voting in primaries gone? It’s been done for years and society has moved so, so far away from leftist goals no?
So their point is that it probably is a mix- surely the Dems need to actually run on popular policy and leftists/apathetic need to suck it up, vote in all elections, and vote for the best candidate. Pick your preferred candidate in the primary and then vote for the Democratic candidate in the general, no matter what (well- barring something egregious like…being anything like Trump.) Once Dems actually have power, you can keep pushing left. But if people just sit out, you’re not gonna be counted. Decades of that is proof.
Edit- maybe you mean you can’t win the center over with conservatism-lite. Maybe that’s true, maybe not. But someone mentioned Bernie finished behind Harris in Vermont so I don’t know that it’s a maxim.
The only way to win over conservatives is a full-throated embrace of fascism. Turns them out like crazy.
…the funny counterpart is that when liberals run a full-throated embrace of populism, their greatest threat isn’t the surge of new progressive supporters, but establishment democrats desperately afraid of losing conservatives who’d never support them anyway…
Mindless sheep sycophant party that abuses the system to stay relivent VS super-diverse big tent party than “takes the high road” and it is still almost 50/50…tells you where the people actually stand and how badly the broken system empowers the shitty minority. Oh, before “huurrrrddduuuurrrrr but popular vote dduuurrrrrrr”…that is how many people of each ideology VOTED not how many there are. Glad I could clarify the obvious for you smooth brain twits that think you have a point.
The popular vote that trump won in addition to the electoral college? That popular vote? Democrats (the party apparatus) need to come to term with themselves and look in the mirror for answers as to why there’s a second trump term on the horizon.
Read, comprehend, then speak.
Yep, every time Dems can’t get enough votes from the left to win, because they aren’t “left/pure enough” for them, what they learn is to shift to the right to find votes.
And can you blame them? Who do you think is more efficient catering to, the right-wing idiot who went to vote for a rapist felon or the self-proclaimed leftist that didn’t vote to stop fascism because they didn’t like the alternative enough?
These last elections were already “right vs far right”, following ones are 100% going to be even worse. When the right wins, shifting left makes no logical sense.
No of course I can’t blame them because it’s the only thing that makes sense to do. That’s what I saying. I blame the people who won’t vote for Dems if they don’t perfectly align with everything they want or don’t pass their purity test.
Magats took over the Republican party because they consistently voted for whichever R won the primary, even if it wasn’t the one they wanted to win the primary. R’s have always done this, but Magats especially have been turning out to do this since 2008 when gasp! the Black guy won (they started out as the Tea party). On top of that they did a lot of activism. Parading around with their guns was the part they liked best about that. They took a name for their movement; the TEA (taxed enough already) party was a stupid name and they looked like idiots with their teabags, but it worked for them and they eventually got their demagogue.
The Democratic party can be moved to the left with this same strategy. Vote for the more left-leaning or whoever you like best in the primary, then vote for whoever has the D by their name in the general. When they learn that they can actually count on getting enough votes from their base, they’ll stop futilely chasing votes from the right. At the same time you have to do activism and keep the movement growing, which makes sure they clearly know what you want and creates pressure to influence their policies. You don’t give up after one election cycle because it takes time and work…
Ceding your power by not voting doesn’t make politicians care about you–it’s not like boycotting a business that wants to sell you something. Politicians want to please those who vote for them, not those who don’t. Learn from the magats. First you put the politicians closer to your views into power, then keep pressuring them to enact the policies you want. Not sit around and wait for them to enact the agenda you want first and after that you’ll vote for them. Think about how training a dog works.
Not sit around and wait for them to enact the agenda you want first and after that you’ll vote for them. Think about how training a dog works.
You deserve kudos for this. Very well put.
h
However, I’ve been doing this forever- and the Dems just keep moving further right.
And you’ll be the bad guy for not wanting to vote for a right wing party.
At this point you might as well start a third party.
Some kind of Democratic Socialist Party of America maybe.
This way Gore can lose all over again!
Imagine thinking the DNC will ever push another Gore. If they were willing to do that we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
You missed the point.
The funniest part of this is the idea that there will be an opposition party in anything but a token way after this.
…was there one before?..
Was there a party that did not install SCOTUS justices that were so ideologically conservative that they did things like end national legal abortion and gut the ability of government regulation agencies to regulate?
Yes there was. But that party is not coming back except as a token now because people just didn’t think stopping the rapist fascist dictator was a good enough reason to vote.
But that party is not coming back except as a token now because people just didn’t think stopping the rapist fascist dictator was a good enough reason to vote
“The party didn’t think stopping the rapist fascist dictator was a good enough reason to listen to their voters”
FTFY
Nope. They can’t force anyone to vote for them. People thought not voting was a better plan than stopping the rapist fascist dictator when they only had two possible choices.
There was an absolute mountain of evidence that Trump would be a disaster. They didn’t vote anyway because they knew they weren’t going to get a pony.
Voting for people in a two-party system is the stupidest thing you can do because you will never get your way with any one politician. So you vote against and keep voting against until you get closer and closer to what you want.
Just not voting or voting for third party candidates that will clearly lose against someone who has an automatic 30% of the vote doesn’t stop the worst possible thing from happening and it never will.
If you didn’t vote to stop Trump from getting into office, I blame you. You had warning after warning and your idealism was more important to you.
I agree with Flying Squid. It’s bizarre to think any sane person would now decide that the right strategy is to hate on minorities, or ditch all pretty normal behaviour such as adhere to the FUCKING LAW, NOT LIE (and spare me the #FalseEquivalence, it’s jaywalking Dems vs serial rapist Trump) and listen to effing EXPERTS. Dems should stick to their principles and await the serious shit show which is gonna happen with mass deportations, tariffs and even MORE INFLATION.
There was an absolute mountain of evidence that Trump would be a disaster.
nobody gives a fuck about that. most people aren’t clocked into online politics. they just live under one admin where trump benefits from obama’s policy, things are squeaky clean for the most part, and then they’re chilling, and then they move to living under joe biden where a once in a lifetime (hopefully, haha) pandemic decides to fuck shit up during the transition from one admin to the other, on top of inheriting a much worse economy, and then they attribute that to biden. it’s not a super complicated figure, there, and that’s all on top of biden just not being a very popular candidate to begin with.
if you actually look at the numbers, then the third party candidates had less of an effect for kamala than the third party candidates for trump did. which makes sense, because RFK, at the least, was campaigning on some sort of dystopian vision of the future that his deluded q-anon supporters actually liked, and he had money. jill stein is just grifting like always, basically, no change there, and no change with the lesser known candidates either, really. the bigger story is that a shit ton of the voters stayed home.
everyone wants to shift blame from the democratic party, which has obviously either mishandled this campaign or intentionally lost as a party of controlled opposition, and shift the blame onto the voters. ah, well, it was latino men’s fault for being too socially conservative! ah, it was the third party voters and the leftists! it was the arab americans, who should’ve voted after we funded the bombs that killed their whole entire family! it was trans people, for just being too weird! those are all legitimate explanations I’ve heard people bring up, and I’d classify them all as basically the same, because they all equally have no evidence behind them. the real story is that she had low voter turnout. probably because she was associated with the least popular administration in decades, and refused to distinguish herself from that, and on top of that, campaigned with like, liz cheney. the most she did was offer like, tax exemptions for people starting small businesses, and tax exemptions for people who haven’t missed their rent a single time in the last kajillion years. it’s not rocket science, that’s just not really an inspiring campaign. if they had low voter turnout, that’s probably why, it’s probably not because america is just too racist to vote for a black woman or whatever shit everyone’s bloviating about so they can justify the democratic party turning to the right even more.
I keep seeing this “people let the fascist genocidal dictator get in because they weren’t excited about Harris” excuse as if it is a good one. It isn’t.
it’s not an excuse, we’re just telling you the reality. how do you think hitler got elected?
They can’t force anyone to vote for them.
Yup, which is why you need to give them reason to vote.
Democrats have been parading around “most important election of our lifetime” for fucking years - don’t be surprised that it didn’t work yet again.
The reason why Trump is popular is because there is legitimate pain and struggle in the working class, and he affirmed that pain and struggle (even if he was misidentifying the source of that pain). Telling voters “things are good, actually, and the other guy is gonna ruin it” is just dumb.
Democrats didn’t run on popular policy and they got destroyed because of it.
They had a reason to vote.
Their reason was that a rapist fascist who quoted Hitler and clearly has dementia that promised to deport millions of people and be a dictator on day one only had a 50/50 chance of being president.
And they didn’t care because they didn’t like Kamala Harris much. Was she any of those things? No. But her boss is funding the same genocide in Israel that Trump said to Netanyahu “finish the job” about on national television, so no one better vote for her either!
Sorry, not a good enough reason to not stop Trump. Not a good enough reason to refuse to vote. Not a good enough reason to vote third party.
For fuck’s sake, do you think people voted for Joe Biden in 2020 because they thought he would be a terrific president?
do you think people voted for Joe Biden in 2020 because they thought he would be a terrific president?
they voted for Biden because he made meaningful concessions to the progressive caucus. He gave Bernie a prominent roll in his campaign and made promises about student loan forgiveness and raising the minimum wage, on top of affirming people’s anxiety about covid and a pledge to address it.
Harris had none of that. She didn’t primary against progressive candidates, didn’t have to address progressive concerns, and when there was vocal opposition to any of her policies she said “excuse me, i’m speaking”. She was more right-moderate than Biden was, even if only because she didn’t face the progressive primary he did.
Your post is CLASSIC misdirection and misrepresenting what the Dems actually did. IF these elections were fair, and I’ve reason to think they were not, then they got lost on higher gas prices. Which is A PRETTY STUPID AND SELFISH reason to vote for/not care about mass deportations. And they lost it on not attacking trump on the border and on the economy.
So we are now in MAGA election rigging conspiracies? JFC. Trump even won the popular vote.
Look at the 2020 popular vote. Trump got 74 Mio. votes back then and 72 Mio. Now
The Dems went from 81 Mio. to 67 Mio.
The Dems succesfully fucked this up with uninspiring candidates and lack of vision to rally their voters.
Who said “things are good actually”?? Seems to me that Harris had plenty of policy proposals that would have resulted in a meaningful improvement to the bottom line of the average American.
Biden has also been better for the average American than trump was. For fucks sake, Trump actually got away with raising taxes on all of us to support his tax cut for the rich, simply because the average person is too low information to grasp the idea of a tax cut that expires!
So yeah, plenty of actual reasons to say that one candidate is better than the other, without needing to be wowed by an actual messiah who can dismantle our fucked up system and solve everybody’s problems.
They repeatedly touted our economic recovery was ‘the best in the G6’.
Even when our economy is ‘good’ it’s shit for most people. That’s the problem with being a neoliberal status quo party: it doesn’t help most of the people they need to vote for them
Regardless of what Biden has done for the average American, his approval rating has been really bad for a while now. It may not be right or fair, but that’s what it is.
Despite Harris not actually being the incumbent, the Republicans managed to associate her with Biden and she more or less embraced it. Then the Republicans were able to frame themselves as the challenger to an unpopular incumbent president and it’s not surprising they did well.
Of course, it didn’t help either that Harris is the VP either. Perhaps if we had a primary and managed to pick another candidate that could distance themselves a bit better from Biden things would be different.
Biden did very early and then learned to not say that again.
Off topic, by why in god do people refer to the democrats as the DNC as if it’s the acronym for the democratic party?
It’s a bit like someone calling every piece in chess a “pawn”. It’s not right technically, and it sounds dumb.
What should they really learn? I’m sick of the blame being placed on decent people not doing enough.
How about we blame the pieces of crap that support Trump who has too many disgusting qualities to list.
64 percent of native americans voting trump was an eye opening stat for me. They are done w the status quo. 2020 it was 54 percent.
What I would like to know the most is why 14 million registered Democrats failed to vote in this election, especially given what is at stake. Because if it was for some stupid, single issue, then fark them, good and hard.
it’s because the dems tacked hard right to appeal to the mythical “moderate conservative” while telling everyone to the left of them to fuck off for months and months on end. people were shouting from the rooftops that this was going to cost them the election, and damn wouldn’t you know it, it looks like it did! will they learn from it? probably not! that’s how controlled opposition parties work.
Just commenting to say I love your name lmfaooo
Why would they learn? They’ll be fine.
This is what people don’t seem to understand. This is not some mythical “huge force.” Democrats elect their people through primaries and they rise. Same as ever.
But all the people who don’t participate? YOU are the ones that have to suffer. Harris was a fine candidate. Sure she wasn’t Santa Claus on Christmas but she was fine and a million ways better than Trump. But people said “eh, I’m ok with Trump then” and didn’t vote for her.
She isn’t gonna suffer. The DNC isn’t going to suffer. YOU and I are. This is what we call an “own goal.” And all the people wanting more left policy? Well good fucking luck when they stack the SCOTUS with 40 year old right wing fucks, stack the rest of the courts, and move everything back another 20 years progress-wise. Think you’re getting better healthcare soon? Think again. It got a ton harder now. Worried about the climate? Great! Because it was fucked before and it’ll be fucked a fuck more now. What little we were doing is going up in smoke.
Besides that- two things can be right. The Dems need to refocus AND shithead lazy ass nonvoters need to get off the fucking couch and vote no matter what. Well, if they can still vote in a free and fair election in 2/4 years.
Are you suggesting that if a voter doesn’t feel that either candidate will represent their needs, they should vote anyway?
They should be smart enough to vote for the one who gets closest to their needs. If they’re not a complete moron that is.
The car is moving in one direction or another. It’d be smart to at least move it in the direction you think it should go.
Democrats elect their people through primaries and they rise.
this literally did not happen this year.
man, Hard Times really was right on the money, Dems aren’t going to learn a single thing from this. I don’t now how to tell you that people are not going to get excited to go vote for Diet Republicans that don’t represent their positions. they will simply stay home! that’s literally what happened here, and you’re sitting here going “errrrmm they’re actually just lazy 🤓 don’t they know about DRUMPF???”
Dick riding dick Cheney might have something to do with it. Fucking embarrassing.
Having fake primaries sure didn’t help.
If you need to ask, then you haven’t been paying attention
Pokémon God save us!
Why are all you fools like “HA! BY NOT VOTING I SURE SHOWED THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY”?
you played YOURSELVES. You’re the one that’s gonna suffer not the party. It’s like you shot yourself just to spite Democrats, and you don’t realize that it’s you who is fucked, not the Democratic party
I can’t in good consciousness vote for genociders, so I voted third party, my only anti genocide option.
CRY ABOUT IT.
Lol the third party candidates are also anti Palestine. That’s why you should not make another country’s war, your one issue election in your own country. Especially when every candidate is against you. All you did was allow the worse one to win, insuring the destruction of Palestine which is now on your hands. Way to support genocide
Nice circular logic there bud. You late for after school debate class? Is mom checking your homework?
Whatever. I’m done arguing with you Americans. I used to think you guys were stupid, now I know you’re actually fascists. You’ve collectively become the dumbest people on earth
Lol, you’re not even American and you’re arguing about this? Do you even know how the electoral college works? Do you know how any of our government structure works?!
If you took every single third party vote across the country and gave all of them to Harris in just the swing states (some democracy we’ve got…) trump still would have won, in a landslide no less. And still won the senate, and it looks like the house is still projected to go Republican as well.
I’m a Vermonter. Vermont was going in a landslide to Harris (president), sanders (senate), and Scott (governor) no matter who I voted for on any of those lines. I voted third party in all three of those races (I once worked for the sanders campaign in 2015 but I’m so tired of his milquetoast bullshit as of late) and then in other local races it was a split ticket. For example, Vermonts Republican running for state treasurer wants to divest state pensions from blackrock. Meanwhile, the democrat incumbent just gave typical mealymouthed democrat party platitudes that were completely meaningless. The Republican in that race got my vote because they earned it.
The entitlement of libs is unreal.
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Can’t kill already dead people. They’re both killers, it’s hard to be worse than biden/Harris are currently supporting.
Trump has told Bibi to “Finish the job in Gaza”. Bibi will ethnic cleanse Gaza and the West Bank- there will be no Palestine, just Greater Israel. And that is better than Biden/Harris?
It’s not better, it’s the same fucking thing.
I voted for Jill Stein since I live in a pure blue state and my vote doesn’t count anyway
At least the non-voters got to do something useful with the time they saved.
Well they might have turned out and voted down ticket and showed us what candidates and policies did motivate them but you told them their votes would be worthless if they didn’t specifically vote for Kamala so they stayed home.
The typical liberal condescension and assumptions cease to amuse.
You know there are local elections that matter more right? Thats where most of us are these days.
We’ll show them next year for sure. Maybe even get our name printed on the ballot
Also the campaign was bad. Not a soul here on lemmy or anywhere else is going to personally out-message a national campaign. People are obviously more enthusiastic to vote for something than to vote against something else, and that’s what it came down to.
Be mad at your party, they threw this election right before your eyes and you plugged your ears and went “lalalala! trump voter says what!” when we tried to tell you that you needed to pressure them to do more or they were going to lose anyways.
Right?
They want progressives to be both a small minority they can ignore, but also 17 million people?!
That would make them 20% of the party…
If 20% of your own party can out message your own campaign, then it’s a shit campaign. Even before factoring in the billion plus dollars you compromised the party platform to raise and the fact that the opponent is trump.
We can’t keep letting the DNC be the only other option. They’re clearly not capable of it.
I remember people here getting crapped on for saying Biden should drop out and let someone else run.
Yet the moment he did, it became some 4D chess move that was going to win the election.
And then the same people were crapped on for “selfishly” asking for a primary to choose a candidate instead of being force fed Harris.
The most delusional person I saw was someone who was convinced the uncommitted movement was backing Harris, after getting banned from the DNC rally for not unconditionally backing Harris…
You aren’t going to like this, but there just isn’t a reason to vote for Democrats if they aren’t going to oppose the Republicans on anything but the personality of Donald Trump.
Sure, they give us lip service, they even throw in goodies once in a while! You get all warm and fuzzy imagining all the things you can “move them” on, but even if they do “listen” to you, (seriously, you guys didn’t even like their platform, and you’re the ones loyal to them. Whose votes are they earning if not yours??) they get challenged and they throw their hands up and say “guess there’s nothing that could be done” and Republicans get whatever they want anyways.
It’s the same outcome, this one just makes you feel bad and dare I say it might actually move you to act.
Again with the “YOU” aren’t gonna like this. No man it’s you voters who fucked yourselves. The Democratic party is gonna survive and it’s politicians aren’t gonna get poorer. It’s you who suffers
I bet your solution is to just vote harder for the same fucking assholes who are fucking us all over! That will show them!
Stupid stupid stupid.
Yeah your solution of not voting at all and allowing Trump to win is a much better option lol
I voted third party thank you very much. Trump voters voted for trump. Harris voters voted for Harris. Third party voters voted for third parties. The democrats ran an awful candidate and then have the audacity to whine bitch moan and scream about how it’s voters fault that they ran a shit ass candidate.
2016 all over again. Trump would of won 2020 too if covid never happened. The democrats are a decaying corpse of a political party and need to be replaced.
Doing the same thing over and over, failing, and expecting it to somehow work if you just do it harder next time is fucking madness.
DECADES OF NEOLIBERALISM CREATED THE MATERIAL CONDITIONS FOR FASCISM TO TAKE ROOT.
You voted the way Trump wanted you to, way to go fascist
Don’t you have homework to do in your parents basement?
That’s not how voting works, but given I’m probably arguing with a child I’m not surprised you don’t understand how voting works.
I agree with your last sentence
Really felt the need to embody that headline huh.
The voters must come to the party, not the other way around.
If standing against fascism doesn’t bring the leftists to vote, you’re doomed. And AGAIN, you only fucked yourselves. The Democratic party isn’t gonna suffer, YOU are.
That’s the argument for replacing them…
Not enabling them and giving them what they want.
Like, you’re literally arguing that we should negotiate with the people holding our country hostage
Idiots, you’re the only ones suffering. The Democratic party will be fine, you won’t. You had more to lose by not voting.
They’ve had four years to deal with the fascism problem and so far they’ve done Jack shit.
Ah ok that’s why you just stood off to the side and allowed fascism to win? The Democratic party didn’t end fascism, so you may as well join the fascists?
I voted third party. What are the democrats doing to fight fascism other than… courting fascists themselves?
You guys really are fucked. I thought just the right way stupid in your country but it’s all of you. And you guys love fascism. You facilitated it.
So you’re saying we should all make our own party? With blackjack and hookers?
Well that would be a lot more fun while being just as effective as the Democratic party, so why not?
With that attitude you can enjoy losing 2028 as well. The fucking entitlement.
Oh they learned their lessons:
- blame minorities
- shift further right
They still address Republicans as their friends and collages. Once that work shift is over, they don’t care. They will run someone like Pete and have the same issues next election.
It’s totally crazy to me that Trump and crew are planning who to use the full power of the United States to murder and the Democratic Party is trying to figure out who to blame for it.
We need them to fight or what good are they?
The electoral college did a great job once again. Everyone please raise your butts as they come out fucking. We want them to enjoy this moment. And let’s all look and act terrified as they penetrate us once more. Let’s trust that they will vote for the candidate they think we need next time too.
They ran Harris thinking she would win based on her demographics. The DNC needs to learn that not everyone wants a black/LGBTQ/woman/etc candidate that just runs on their race/gender/sexuality.
They want someone that’s competent that will campaign on policies that will make their lives better. The DNC has moved so far away from the working class that the RNC, the party of wealthy creeps, has them.
They ran Harris because she was the only candidate they could justify shoehorning in without a primary, since she’s VP.
Why they didn’t want to run a primary is a great question. Probably cost and time, and name recognition. Studies show that often the candidate with the most name recognition wins. There’s wasn’t enough time to tell every person in America a brand new person’s name.
But usually VPs don’t do well when they run as president. Imo Dems are just trying to avoid another Bernie Sanders situation - a leftist with an authentic campaign and people who genuinely like them. More than anything, they gotta stop real progress in this country.
They lost the general because they refused to hold a legitimate primary. This wouldn’t of happened. They haven’t run a real primary since 2008 and look at how hard Obama won in a landslide after competing in a deep field of qualified and competent candidates.
Even in 2008, it was obvious Clinton was the DNC’s preferred candidate and DNC still had their thumb on the scale. Despite this, Obama still managed to come out ahead. And with a base that was actually excited about their chosen candidate, they turned out to vote and Obama won.
The only lesson the DNC learned from this is that they needed to push their thumb harder on the scales the next time around.
They learned two things: identity politics and weigh the scale down as hard as possible.
They obsessed over identity, to their long term detriment as some of the minority identities they fawned over are shifting their support towards trump.
Imo Dems are just trying to avoid another Bernie Sanders situation - a leftist with an authentic campaign and people who genuinely like them
100% this is why. They didn’t want any internal pressure for progressive policies or a public platform to voice them.
running token candidates beholden to them is very shady but brilliant strategy by the superpacs :
if they loose: blame it on sexism, racism bigotry to divert the attention from reforms in dnc for progressive leadership. and even if they pretend to be sad about it, the megarich elites and donors get taxcuts and endless price gouging from republicans.
if they win: token candidate passes some token laws which gets either blocked in senate or so poorly implemented that they actually end up giving billions to megacorps for no visible benefit to people. case in point: https://www.atr.org/kamalas-broadband-bust-42-billion-996-days-zero-homes-connected/
She quite specifically DIDNT run on those things, like Hillary did…so…
So every racist and misogynist will say she did anyways.
Including the ones on Lemmy.
I think she, and to a greater extent the policies of the Democratic Party since Carter just cost America the Republic but there is literally nothing a black woman could do to convince some people she’s competent in her own right.
Competent at neoliberal corporate cronyism, mind you. But Harris’s qualifications by herself are rock solid.
If this election cost America the Republic then I would argue the voters cost it.
If you can’t be bothered to vote to save the Republic then it was lost already anyhow.
They had no platform other than fear mongering about Trump.
The difference between Harris and Obama was that while Obama was biracial that wasn’t the focus of his campaign, his platform was, and he articulated it well. That’s the real lesson to take away from Obama’s success at the polls not let’s run a black person and hope we win.
Obama also competed against a deep field of qualified candidates in 2008. He went into the general with momentum of a popular mandate and then won in a landslide.
He would of done nearly as good if he was a white man.
On the flip side, when the republicans lost with Romney in 2012 they did a whole lot of soul searching (rather than blaming the electorate and moving closer to the center to court mythical ‘moderates’ which is the ongoing failed strategy of the democrats), and in 2016 they had an extremely competitive primary where trump came out on top with a mandate as popular with the base as Obama in 2008.
Primaries also benefit from the same effect that makes every movie and TV show a reboot: Name recognition. The long primary cycle keeps their name in the news so people get familiar with it so they’re more likely to vote for them.
Normally I’d agree with you because you’re not wrong, but who at this point doesn’t know who trump or Harris are? And where can I find that rock they are hiding under so I can get some quiet time?
IKR I’d kill to not know who that asshole is
I can’t wait for trump to drop dead of natural causes only so I don’t have to hear his voice ever again
Bigly mood
rather than … moving closer to the center to court mythical ‘moderate
Looking back at 2016 I think Trump won exactly because he went for the middle: middle working class. I know we all thought he was going hard right (and he did appeal to them for certain reasons), but he campaigned to the middle class and won them.
That’s bot the middle we’re talking about. Trump ran on right policy (and "policy) both elections and won.
Do you meant that’s not the middle?
Trump ran on right policy (and "policy) both elections and won
That’s what I thought for a long time. But when I look back at 2016 and I look at this one, I think he appealed to the center voter with promises of jobs and income. They liked that so much they keep saying/thinking/hoping that Trump won’t do all the nutso right wing stuff he says he will. Go listen to voter interviews, they all say “nah he won’t do mass deportation, it’s all bluster.”, or “He only means the criminals.” It’s unreal but that’s what they think.
Do you meant that’s not the middle?
Oh yeah.
That’s what I thought for a long time. But when I look back at 2016 and I look at this one, I think he appealed to the center voter with promises of jobs and income.
I mean everyone, no matter their political views, cares about jobs and income. Being left or right wing is more about the way you believe that should be achieved (and how much you hate minorities). Trump didn’t appeal to center voters with promises of jobs and income; he appealed to right wing voters with their version of jobs and income and other policies right wing voters support. Obama promised left wing voters their version of jobs and income. Hillary and Harris promised nobody’s version of jobs and income.
They ran Harris because she was the only viable option when it was clear that Biden was not. They did not run Harris thinking she would win at all, they ran her out of desperation because the incumbent was flatlining. It was not a choice, and it certainly was not one based on demographics. It was a “Hail Mary” and it failed as it was likely to do from the outset, and everyone who was paying attention knew that, yet had no choice but to hope for the best.
lol, you believe this? I don’t find it hard to believe that they put Biden though a primary, just to have him drop out…
IMO running Harris was the plan from the beginning. You know, which was kind of the problem, hijacking the primary.
To use your own words, you believe that?
This was not a grand conspiracy geez. Biden’s “primary” was perfunctory because we learned you never primary the incumbent. If he didn’t perform badly at the debate he probably wouldn’t have dropped out.
lol, you believe this?
Do I believe that about four months ago the Democratic Party made a desperate move to replace the incumbent candidate and there were very few viable options at the time? Yes, I believe that, because we just went through it about four months ago. It’s pretty much political suicide to withdraw an incumbent candidate. You don’t plan that from the beginning, because that would be a stupid plan. It was very likely “planned” as in “plan B,” but it’s kind of idiotic to think that it was plan A. The primary was not hijacked, the incumbent is always the candidate. Primaries are always a formality for the incumbent party.
lol. And the DNC didn’t shill for Hilary Clinton in 2016 over Bernie Sanders
Nope, that DID happen. But you are ignoring the obvious reality in this case.
Please, you’re ignoring that the very obvious deduction that DNC didn’t want an open primary.
She quite specifically DIDNT run on those things, like Hillary did…so…
I literally see voters saying the Democrats were too left leaning, jfc.
With parties like this, painful collapse is the only way to avoid multigenerational destitution.
There is no saving the United States as a framework. It is far too compromised, with too many methods installed to keep the people willfully ignorant and infighting as the owners suck their life forces dry for profit.
We can limp along and pretend that isn’t the case, but climate change, aka the reality that doesn’t give a shit about our self-delusion and greed worship, will force that collapse sooner rather than later. Reality can’t be bribed, deluded, disappeared, or discredited.
Enjoy living in delusion that a society can function in capitalist competition against itself, the ability to do so is coming to an end.
