I literally see voters saying the Democrats were too left leaning, jfc.
With parties like this, painful collapse is the only way to avoid multigenerational destitution.
There is no saving the United States as a framework. It is far too compromised, with too many methods installed to keep the people willfully ignorant and infighting as the owners suck their life forces dry for profit.
We can limp along and pretend that isn’t the case, but climate change, aka the reality that doesn’t give a shit about our self-delusion and greed worship, will force that collapse sooner rather than later. Reality can’t be bribed, deluded, disappeared, or discredited.
Enjoy living in delusion that a society can function in capitalist competition against itself, the ability to do so is coming to an end.
They’ll learn the left never shows up, even when their human fucking rights are at stake. Next election the Dems will go hard center, to get the voters that actually show up.
That’s a bold statement only a day after a campaign based on going hard-center crashed and burned.
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or a colossal idiot who learned nothing from the satirical article about the fact that the people you’re deflecting blame off of learning nothing.If it’s the former, well done I guess? 🤷If it’s the latter, please wake the fuck up and smell the malignant incompetence.
Edit: just realized that you’re the “Hillary 2016 was further left than Obama 08” weirdo, so it’s DEFINITELY the latter. Please abandon your ridiculous pet hypothesis and get a fucking clue.
As a non-American I wanna ask: Is the American left blaming Harris and the DNC for this or is it all “Americans are so sexist” and “leftists suck” nonsense like I’m seeing here? Idk where to get this information and I wanna know if I get to have some faith in humanity.
It’s all of the above, really. The Left (actual left, rather than the center right to right wing Democrats in charge of the party) is blaming the DNC, Harris, racism, sexism, the billionaire-owned media, and of course the people who voted for fascism. Because all of those things contributed meaningfully to the baffling and tragic result.
Meanwhile, the DNC and their most diehard supporters blame racism, sexism, and most of all the Left.
They obstinately refuse to acknowledge that their “team” fucked up, so they’re blaming the people whose warnings they refused to listen to.
“Hillary 2016 was further left than Obama 2008”
Strawman
weirdo
Ad hom
Nope, you literally keep arguing that Hillary lost because she went left and Obama won because he didn’t. Accurately restating your nonsense is not a strawman.
As for ad hominem, that’s a nope too. An ad hominem fallacy is when you try to dismiss an argument by insulting the person rather than the context of the argument.
In this case, I’m adding an accurately descriptive insult as an observation after dismissing your argument based on one of many examples of how ridiculous the argument itself is. Which is not an ad hominem.
You, logic, and language don’t seem to be on the best of terms…
You rely on bad readings and insults, so fallacies through and through.
Wrong again, but being confidently wrong is your comfort zone, so it’s hardly surprising 🤷
See? Peace.
Ya, I feel like I’m taking crazy pills with all these posts blaming democrats for losing when billionaires are literally buying votes to stop Harris.
According to Fox news Harris had more Billionaires on her side
A new report shows the Harris-Walz campaign and its Democratic allies spent nearly $1.4 billion on aired political ads in their failed bid to defeat President-elect Trump, outspending the 45th president and Republicans by nearly $460 million.
It is Fox so take it with a grain of salt. But it would not be surprising.
1.4 billion to their media company friends. maybe they should have hired some canvassers.
I mean Harris also had billionaire support. She wasn’t exactly a revolutionary. And you put “billionaires” but that was Elon Musk’s incompetent ass.
They’ll learn the left never shows up, even when their human fucking rights are at stake.
The right didn’t show up either, but you lot were gung-ho about getting their fucking approval. You showed the left everything you are.
If the left are not important enough to court, they’re not important enough to blame, even though that means your strategy was shit and you moved to the right for nothing but the sheer joy of it.
If the left are not important enough to court, they’re not important enough to blame
This election showed either 1) the left will literally never show up, or 2) the left doesn’t exist. Take your pick, either way the left is done. No one’s going to rely on the left or run a left platform for fucking decades.
They already weren’t relying on the left in this election so what’s changed exactly?
They were relying on the left showing up for their own human fucking rights and mfing democracy. If the left can’t show up for that, they will literally never show up. No one will ever put themselves in a position to rely on the left voter ever again. Not for decades.
I’ll see you next time when they get again pander to the center and Republicans and fail again. 🫡
We’ll see if we even have a fair election.
She was on a rocketship trajectory before getting Cheney on and focusing on old ex-R endorsements. There aren’t enough voters in the center and you can’t switch any magats is the takeaway.
She was on a rocketship trajectory before getting Cheney
That’s what we thought but apparently not. All this time a large chunk of Americans were getting brainwashed by social media algorithms that she’s going to start WW3, or going to let all the illegal immigrants in, or she is going to make gas even more expensive, or round up Christians or some other bullshit.
The DNC didn’t have a chance because the voters are fucking morons.
and you’re never going to be able to stop that, so you need to give the left who stayed home (as fucking stupid as that was) someone to be excited about
You think there are millions of self-proclaimed leftists in USA? Sure buddy.
And these ‘leftists’ saw who might be president and they still chose to abstain?
Good job. 👍
The DNC saw who their rival is and decided to move in that direction instead of catering to the millions that are not voting because of their lacklustre policies. Good job the DNC as well, then.
What about the ones who are voting but doesn’t use their voice to pressure the DNC to adopt more progressive policies, but instead prefer to alienate the left even more by attacking them the whole way up to the election. I’m sure they’re happy with their decision, as well.
I think my sarcasm wasn’t clear to you so let me say it in clearer terms:
The left in USA is a myth. There aren’t millions of leftists waiting for DNC to do the right things and give them perfect unicorn to vote for so they can get off their asses.
That’s because you can only think in black and white terms that you can’t tell that it’s not just ‘leftist’ that would be motivated to vote if the DNC had catered to more progressive policies, but a lot of people on the centre that had also been disillusioned by the political system. We’ve seen many times that progressive stances gets a lot of support from people of all political spectrum, yet the only thing the DNC can think to do is try to appeal to the right side of the spectrum that would still only vote for a Republican? So ridiculous.
In the meantime, you can continue putting your head in the sand and enjoy watching Harris get less support than Hillary because the ‘leftist’ are not worth listening to. I’m sure you think if she had slid even more to the right, she would’ve gotten more support, right?
Exactly this.
I wonder if liberals have finally stopped calling anyone who criticizes Harris and the DNC campaign a MAGA troll.
Probably never will. We’ll be hearing them blaming us as we shuffle in a chain gang to the concentration camps.
At least they seem to have moved on from Russian bot.
Well that and before going super war hawk in her nomination acceptance speech.
There are literally shit tons of voters in the center, that is the big fat center that decides elections. Plus those voters are worth double, because it’s a vote for you and a vote taken away from the other party.
This is true, and those voters main concern in presidential elections is the economy. According to NBC’s exit polling:
Nearly half — 45% — of all voters said they were worse off financially than they were four years ago. That was a higher level of dissatisfaction than what registered in exit polls in any recent election going back to 2008, when the election took place amid the financial crisis that propelled Barack Obama to victory.
Though the economy is growing […] 2 in 3 voters rated the U.S. economy poorly, a level higher than in 2020, when the country struggled to get in gear during the Covid pandemic.
[…] About three-quarters of voters nationwide said they felt negatively about the way things are going in the country, including 29% who said they were downright angry.
Meanwhile only 4% of voters cited foreign policy (which covers the Gaza genocide and Ukraine’s defense – immigration was broken out into a separate category) as their main concern. Even if Harris flipped the big red “stop the genocide” button and brought those single issue voters out of hiding, there’s no way they could outnumber the voters who were pissed about the economy.
Frankly, if she was going to have a real chance, she needed to throw Biden under the bus – and it still might not have made a difference.
If she came out and said she would stop companies fucking their customers, that might have done it.
I think instead she entertained firing Lina Khan?
Yup. 🤦
That 4% represented 25 electoral college votes fam.
But yes the economy as well. Go look at Michigan and Wisconsin and keep the arabs in mind. When you play with your numbers.
And all she had to do was say she’d apply american laws to israel. And not let her campaign shit on arabs. Shame really.
As for the economy… Yeah ‘nothing specificly comes to mind’ probably isnt the best choice to run. My khan! 😞😮💨
Dems lose when they try to appease this magical center because it takes the wind out of the sails of of their voting base. I mean getting buddy buddy with Liz Cheney killed my enthusiasm entirely and I only showed up to vote against Republicans instead of wanting to vote.
Dems win when they promote hope and energize voters to increase voting turnout. She squandered that momentum.
The Dems only win when they go center. Go through history: After successive losses Clinton went center on the economy, as you do against an incumbent, and won. Gore when left with climate change and lost. Obama relied on “hope” and won after Bush’s disastrous wars. Hillary said she’d have a map room to fight climate change and lost. Biden went center, as you do against an incumbent, and won. Kamala tried the same “hope” as Obama, but “it’s the economy, stupid”. Every time they lost it’s because they relied on the left that didn’t show up, and they only win when they go center.
That’s… interesting… I don’t know about Bill Clinton, not too familiar with that part of American history, but Gore? Gore won but didn’t demand a recount of Florida. Obama relied on leftist policies and wiped the floor with the GOP. Hillary lost because she was a “hold your nose and vote for her” centrist, not because she relied on leftists what the fuck are you even talking about? Harris did the same thing as Hillary and predictably lost.
and even the biden win was just stupidly close given trump literally drove your whole country head first into the top “fucked up the pandemic” spot
Can I find anything about the Biden win being close? I wasn’t following that election that closely.
Obama stayed vague and relied on hope and energy. It was enough after Bush’s disastrous wars.
More on Obama: So he enacted the ACA. That’s great, right? The thanks Obama got for that was to lose the House of Representatives for year 3 and 4. And lose the House of reps again for years 5 and 6. And then lose both the House of reps and the Senate for years 7 and 8. He enacted left policy and: The left never showed up.
Hillary Clinton: So what did Hillary learn from the last 6 years of Obama? She learned that the left never shows up. So she only stuck her head out with a big position to left on the map room to climate change. She basically declared war on climate change. You know that big existential issue that all the leftists care about, right? The big important issue that the left says they want so badly, right? And guess what happened? Bam she lost. Thanks protest non-voters! Aka: The left never shows up.
Harris quite literally tried to copy Obama’s hope and energy strategy. She literally hired Obama’s campaign strategists. But it didn’t work because “it’s the economy stupid”.
Economy is always first. You’re right that’s what you need to focus on to get the center. But you also need to be left enough to energize the left to get over the Rs own center and right voters.
Okay you clearly aren’t interested in actually learning anything. Have a good day.
You’re trying to pretend that Harris ran to the left because you still think it’s the fucking 90s.
What are you smoking? I literally just said: Kamala tried to copy Obama’s “hope” and energy, but [it didn’t work because] “it’s the economy, stupid”. She didn’t run to the left on policy (because she saw that didn’t help Biden after he passed all those left things) but she still relied on the left to show up for their human fucking rights and mfing democracy. They couldn’t even do that.
Oh I remember you, you’re the guy that never makes any sense.
Every time they lost it’s because they relied on the left that didn’t show up
The left DOES show up…but here’s the thing…there’s not enough of them to make a difference. I know it FEELS like leftism and even progressivism is super duper popular because its omnipresent on the internet but in the real world there just aren’t enough of them to matter for national elections outside of a few specific places.
It’s like relying on an 8 year old to help you move furniture. You quickly realize that they just aren’t strong enough to do much.
Moving to the right just failed spectacularly. Democrats will do it again anyway.
Oh? Who does the canvasing? Who gets their friends to vote? You ignore the cascade effect of lefties on their moderate social circle. Who absolutely eviscerates the dems when then start supporting genocide and procorporate nonsense over working Americans.
Look at how well that worked out.
Kamala didn’t appeal to them. Clinton was right: “It’s the economy stupid”. That’s what got Trump in. Trump won on inflation, housing, and (further right) xenophobia.
So far what I have learned about what Kamala has learned is:
It is now the darkest night in America.
But…
There are billions of stars you can only see at night!
…
You know, faint, distant glimmers from long, long ago, that you can squint at and imagine they form coherent, stable, meaningful structures… which are not, and never really were there at all.
…
I do not know if she was intentionally attempting to invert/reference Reagan’s ‘Morning in America’ and HW’s ‘Thousand points of light’, or if she somehow thought this was an original, meaningful metaphor.
Either would be pathetic and disgusting.
…
Anyway, quite literally that may have been how democracy in America died, to another speech of meaningless platitudes, ending with thunderous applause, congratulating that a failed struggle was worth it, because even though it failed, it played by the rules and was gracious in defeat.
End scene! Bravo!
did she wrote “rings of power” or payne&mckay wrote her speeches ?
The funniest part of this is the idea that there will be an opposition party in anything but a token way after this.
…was there one before?..
Was there a party that did not install SCOTUS justices that were so ideologically conservative that they did things like end national legal abortion and gut the ability of government regulation agencies to regulate?
Yes there was. But that party is not coming back except as a token now because people just didn’t think stopping the rapist fascist dictator was a good enough reason to vote.
But that party is not coming back except as a token now because people just didn’t think stopping the rapist fascist dictator was a good enough reason to vote
“The party didn’t think stopping the rapist fascist dictator was a good enough reason to listen to their voters”
FTFY
Nope. They can’t force anyone to vote for them. People thought not voting was a better plan than stopping the rapist fascist dictator when they only had two possible choices.
There was an absolute mountain of evidence that Trump would be a disaster. They didn’t vote anyway because they knew they weren’t going to get a pony.
Voting for people in a two-party system is the stupidest thing you can do because you will never get your way with any one politician. So you vote against and keep voting against until you get closer and closer to what you want.
Just not voting or voting for third party candidates that will clearly lose against someone who has an automatic 30% of the vote doesn’t stop the worst possible thing from happening and it never will.
If you didn’t vote to stop Trump from getting into office, I blame you. You had warning after warning and your idealism was more important to you.
I agree with Flying Squid. It’s bizarre to think any sane person would now decide that the right strategy is to hate on minorities, or ditch all pretty normal behaviour such as adhere to the FUCKING LAW, NOT LIE (and spare me the #FalseEquivalence, it’s jaywalking Dems vs serial rapist Trump) and listen to effing EXPERTS. Dems should stick to their principles and await the serious shit show which is gonna happen with mass deportations, tariffs and even MORE INFLATION.
They can’t force anyone to vote for them.
Yup, which is why you need to give them reason to vote.
Democrats have been parading around “most important election of our lifetime” for fucking years - don’t be surprised that it didn’t work yet again.
The reason why Trump is popular is because there is legitimate pain and struggle in the working class, and he affirmed that pain and struggle (even if he was misidentifying the source of that pain). Telling voters “things are good, actually, and the other guy is gonna ruin it” is just dumb.
Democrats didn’t run on popular policy and they got destroyed because of it.
Who said “things are good actually”?? Seems to me that Harris had plenty of policy proposals that would have resulted in a meaningful improvement to the bottom line of the average American.
Biden has also been better for the average American than trump was. For fucks sake, Trump actually got away with raising taxes on all of us to support his tax cut for the rich, simply because the average person is too low information to grasp the idea of a tax cut that expires!
So yeah, plenty of actual reasons to say that one candidate is better than the other, without needing to be wowed by an actual messiah who can dismantle our fucked up system and solve everybody’s problems.
Regardless of what Biden has done for the average American, his approval rating has been really bad for a while now. It may not be right or fair, but that’s what it is.
Despite Harris not actually being the incumbent, the Republicans managed to associate her with Biden and she more or less embraced it. Then the Republicans were able to frame themselves as the challenger to an unpopular incumbent president and it’s not surprising they did well.
Of course, it didn’t help either that Harris is the VP either. Perhaps if we had a primary and managed to pick another candidate that could distance themselves a bit better from Biden things would be different.
Biden did very early and then learned to not say that again.
They repeatedly touted our economic recovery was ‘the best in the G6’.
Even when our economy is ‘good’ it’s shit for most people. That’s the problem with being a neoliberal status quo party: it doesn’t help most of the people they need to vote for them
Your post is CLASSIC misdirection and misrepresenting what the Dems actually did. IF these elections were fair, and I’ve reason to think they were not, then they got lost on higher gas prices. Which is A PRETTY STUPID AND SELFISH reason to vote for/not care about mass deportations. And they lost it on not attacking trump on the border and on the economy.
So we are now in MAGA election rigging conspiracies? JFC. Trump even won the popular vote.
Look at the 2020 popular vote. Trump got 74 Mio. votes back then and 72 Mio. Now
The Dems went from 81 Mio. to 67 Mio.
The Dems succesfully fucked this up with uninspiring candidates and lack of vision to rally their voters.
They had a reason to vote.
Their reason was that a rapist fascist who quoted Hitler and clearly has dementia that promised to deport millions of people and be a dictator on day one only had a 50/50 chance of being president.
And they didn’t care because they didn’t like Kamala Harris much. Was she any of those things? No. But her boss is funding the same genocide in Israel that Trump said to Netanyahu “finish the job” about on national television, so no one better vote for her either!
Sorry, not a good enough reason to not stop Trump. Not a good enough reason to refuse to vote. Not a good enough reason to vote third party.
For fuck’s sake, do you think people voted for Joe Biden in 2020 because they thought he would be a terrific president?
do you think people voted for Joe Biden in 2020 because they thought he would be a terrific president?
they voted for Biden because he made meaningful concessions to the progressive caucus. He gave Bernie a prominent roll in his campaign and made promises about student loan forgiveness and raising the minimum wage, on top of affirming people’s anxiety about covid and a pledge to address it.
Harris had none of that. She didn’t primary against progressive candidates, didn’t have to address progressive concerns, and when there was vocal opposition to any of her policies she said “excuse me, i’m speaking”. She was more right-moderate than Biden was, even if only because she didn’t face the progressive primary he did.
There was an absolute mountain of evidence that Trump would be a disaster.
nobody gives a fuck about that. most people aren’t clocked into online politics. they just live under one admin where trump benefits from obama’s policy, things are squeaky clean for the most part, and then they’re chilling, and then they move to living under joe biden where a once in a lifetime (hopefully, haha) pandemic decides to fuck shit up during the transition from one admin to the other, on top of inheriting a much worse economy, and then they attribute that to biden. it’s not a super complicated figure, there, and that’s all on top of biden just not being a very popular candidate to begin with.
if you actually look at the numbers, then the third party candidates had less of an effect for kamala than the third party candidates for trump did. which makes sense, because RFK, at the least, was campaigning on some sort of dystopian vision of the future that his deluded q-anon supporters actually liked, and he had money. jill stein is just grifting like always, basically, no change there, and no change with the lesser known candidates either, really. the bigger story is that a shit ton of the voters stayed home.
everyone wants to shift blame from the democratic party, which has obviously either mishandled this campaign or intentionally lost as a party of controlled opposition, and shift the blame onto the voters. ah, well, it was latino men’s fault for being too socially conservative! ah, it was the third party voters and the leftists! it was the arab americans, who should’ve voted after we funded the bombs that killed their whole entire family! it was trans people, for just being too weird! those are all legitimate explanations I’ve heard people bring up, and I’d classify them all as basically the same, because they all equally have no evidence behind them. the real story is that she had low voter turnout. probably because she was associated with the least popular administration in decades, and refused to distinguish herself from that, and on top of that, campaigned with like, liz cheney. the most she did was offer like, tax exemptions for people starting small businesses, and tax exemptions for people who haven’t missed their rent a single time in the last kajillion years. it’s not rocket science, that’s just not really an inspiring campaign. if they had low voter turnout, that’s probably why, it’s probably not because america is just too racist to vote for a black woman or whatever shit everyone’s bloviating about so they can justify the democratic party turning to the right even more.
I keep seeing this “people let the fascist genocidal dictator get in because they weren’t excited about Harris” excuse as if it is a good one. It isn’t.
it’s not an excuse, we’re just telling you the reality. how do you think hitler got elected?
It’s going to be really fun to see them dust off the same exact playbook next time around, I already have two copies of it, I use one to even out the table in my kitchen, and the other I use the pages to pick up my dogs shit in the yard.”
Democrats have to be deft and diplomatic and do the right things all the time that somehow appeal to all the Americans (including Americans on opposite sides like Palestine supporters and Israel supporters) and they lose if they fumble even a little bit.
Unlike the MAGA party of bigots who can’t lose no matter how much of dipshits they are.
And when they lose they take the high road of blaming themselves. It’s en exercise in self flagellation.
I disagree. At the risk of oversimplifying, American voters tend to respect strength of conviction, even if they don’t always agree with the policy, over milquetoast candidates. That’s why Sanders attracted so many voters who went on to vote for the other party’s candidate in the general election. Democrats need to decide what they believe in, and say it long, loud, and proud.
They did seem quite unsure of what their values should be. I think thats a negative for some people that a persons values seem to change to match the audience. The pre-planned replies didnt help either. Kept hearing the same points almost to a word.
Why’s it so hard to speak like a human being for the democrats? Make fun of trump all we want, his McDonalds video was not a bad look, it was personable.
I just typed another reply to the effect that Democrats can’t express strong values because of the inherent contradiction of being a corporatist party trying to appeal to workers for votes. I would add that it’s not only a bad look, but a bad political tactic: If you don’t state your values, your opponents are more than happy to fill in the blanks with whatever batshit nonsense serves their purpose.
Bro BFFR Dems had Dick and Liz Cheney endorsing her, exactly what part of their base is a war criminal and his nepo baby supposed to appeal to?
She also had Taylor Swift, Bernie Sanders, Obama, Mark Cuban, multple military generals endorsing her, among others.
But sure, it was the Cheneys that outweighed everyone else. That’s the problem, not American voters who didn’t think ‘holy shit everyone across the sociopolitical landscape is coming together supporting her, trump is that much of a serious threat’.
Great work👍
I dont think that everyone gives the same weight to those peoples opinions. Some see Obama as a war criminal, mark Cuban is in the billionaire class and is against business regulation, taylor swift is also a billionaire, and Beyonce is a billionaire as well?
Bernie gave the same vote against tyranny stuff the democrats were saying. I dont recall him being excited about Kamala’s policy, was he?
If the republicans are running on change, and the democrats are running on not changing, but most americans want things to change, it shouldnt be shocking which one wins.
The democrats could have offered up a better idea to change the country but they didnt. They tried to scold and patronize people into voting for them instead.
If the republicans are running on change, and the democrats are running on not changing, but most americans want things to change, it shouldnt be shocking which one wins.
Most Americans are in for a rude awakening if they think the change republicans are proposing are the same change they want. Or maybe they do want wrecked economy, dismantled healthcare, and internment camps for ‘’‘illegals’‘’. Who the fuck knows.
Yes, it they still don’t want the status quo, so they would not have been happy either way. The point is that the party proposing a change can scoop up votes of those wishing for change, which is most people.
Biden didn’t win on no change. He won on change from trumps presidency. Change wins. Proposals win. Stability is good, but if people don’t feel stability, like with runaway inflation, or a recent global pandemic, or a recent trump presidency, then saying things are stable and good is not a winner. They are not.
The point is that the party proposing a change can scoop up votes of those wishing for change, which is most people.
Shouldn’t we blame voters for not looking at what change is being proposed?
Oh wait, many of them were being told she’s worse than Trump, going to start the next world war, jail white men, or other such nonsense on social media or podcasts.
There is enough blame to go around. However, voters as a bloc is a more nebulous concept than a voter or party.
All of that’s true, but not how the general voting population works. We have to live in the world that exists, not the one where everyone is paying as much attention as they should.
Alternatively, this should be massive fucking sign that the general voting populace is so desperate for any change that they’d go for horrible changes rather than perpetuating the status quo.
For real, all these people blaming democrats for not winning when billionaires were literally buying votes to not be taxed by democrats. Seems like a campaign.
Well, if anything it proves that Unions work. Unions of billionaire media moguls especially. Many (soft, wealthy) hands coming together, to push in collectively towards a common goal of eliminating the National Labor Relations Board, the EPA, the SEC, and the IRS… it’s kind of beautiful, in its way. (/s)
I mean she chose to spend the last weeks essentially campaigning with the cheneys that’s different than just an endorsement when they star in dozens of rallies.
You’re in the headline, btw.
It’s insane to me how Democrats keep appealing to the right, when their historically greatest turnout has been galvanizing their base like with Obama.
And yes, a war criminal’s endorsement is more important to me than a pop star’s. One of them actually works in policy.
You’re in the headline, btw.
I’m not American.
And most Trump voters/no voters are going to wish they weren’t either in three or so years.
I’m not American
I…then why are you telling Americans that we’re wrong for thinking the DNC ran a shit campaign?? Like, you’re right, we’re in for a FUCKED time starting January 2025, but did you really expect people to turn out on election night out of an existential threat? Does that happen where you live?
Harris didn’t lose because everyone voted for Trump, Harris lost because the Dem’s voter base felt so unheard by their own candidate regarding their issues that they stayed home, exactly as Bernie Sanders said. The numbers and voter stats are all there for people to read. Harris AND Trump got overall less votes than 2020, but Harris lost the Blue Wall from 2020. Hillary at least won the popular vote, Harris and the 2024 DNC don’t even have that.
It doesn’t matter where you are in the world, voter turnout correlates to progressives getting in power. The conservatives always have a core base of ~20-30% of voters that will always show up (no really, look up historical voter numbers in your own country), and the DNC have really tried appealing to these people in the US instead of bringing out their own base!
It’s a flawed strategy because it’s shown over and over again that these core voters will always vote through their conservative party lines.
I…then why are you telling Americans that we’re wrong for thinking the DNC ran a shit campaign?? Like, you’re right, we’re in for a FUCKED time starting January 2025, but did you really expect people to turn out on election night out of an existential threat?
You’re right. Too stupid of me to think Americans would hold their noses and vote to keep someone who’s objectively worse for the whole planet out of the oval office.
Does that happen where you live?
No unfortunately, but I live in a third world country full of uneducated population. Again, dumb of me to assume Americans would be any different.
Harris lost because the Dem’s voter base felt so unheard by their own candidate regarding their issues that they stayed home, exactly as Bernie Sanders said
And they’re getting second Trump presidency. Good job riding that high horse. 👍
It’s not a high horse, because I voted for Kamala Harris. But as someone who actually goes here, I knew this was going to be the exact outcome, because this high minded “vote for Trump to save democracy” is what got us in this mess in the first place. It happened in exactly like this 2016, and the Dem’s didn’t learn.
Sure, we can blame the electorate, I’m all for it. But saying that it’s SOLELY the electorate’s fault when the DNC has been trotting out milquetoast candidates one after the other is so disingenuous. Americans keep saying they don’t want two right wing candidates, but no one is listening.
exactly what part of their base is a war criminal and his nepo baby supposed to appeal to?
Centrists. There was a reason that when Democrats took the House and Senate in 2006, they didn’t stop being a rubber stamp for Cheney’s war.
That tiny minority of never trumpers
The same ones they had in 2020 because it turns out only 5% of Republicans know what republicanism is.
Well, there isn’t going to be a Palestine in not too much longer after Bibi ethnically cleanses it and annexes it to Greater Israel.
Why are all you fools like “HA! BY NOT VOTING I SURE SHOWED THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY”?
you played YOURSELVES. You’re the one that’s gonna suffer not the party. It’s like you shot yourself just to spite Democrats, and you don’t realize that it’s you who is fucked, not the Democratic party
I voted for Jill Stein since I live in a pure blue state and my vote doesn’t count anyway
At least the non-voters got to do something useful with the time they saved.
You know there are local elections that matter more right? Thats where most of us are these days.
Well they might have turned out and voted down ticket and showed us what candidates and policies did motivate them but you told them their votes would be worthless if they didn’t specifically vote for Kamala so they stayed home.
The typical liberal condescension and assumptions cease to amuse.
We’ll show them next year for sure. Maybe even get our name printed on the ballot
Really felt the need to embody that headline huh.
The voters must come to the party, not the other way around.
If standing against fascism doesn’t bring the leftists to vote, you’re doomed. And AGAIN, you only fucked yourselves. The Democratic party isn’t gonna suffer, YOU are.
They’ve had four years to deal with the fascism problem and so far they’ve done Jack shit.
Ah ok that’s why you just stood off to the side and allowed fascism to win? The Democratic party didn’t end fascism, so you may as well join the fascists?
I voted third party. What are the democrats doing to fight fascism other than… courting fascists themselves?
You guys really are fucked. I thought just the right way stupid in your country but it’s all of you. And you guys love fascism. You facilitated it.
That’s the argument for replacing them…
Not enabling them and giving them what they want.
Like, you’re literally arguing that we should negotiate with the people holding our country hostage
Idiots, you’re the only ones suffering. The Democratic party will be fine, you won’t. You had more to lose by not voting.
With that attitude you can enjoy losing 2028 as well. The fucking entitlement.
So you’re saying we should all make our own party? With blackjack and hookers?
Well that would be a lot more fun while being just as effective as the Democratic party, so why not?
I can’t in good consciousness vote for genociders, so I voted third party, my only anti genocide option.
CRY ABOUT IT.
Lol the third party candidates are also anti Palestine. That’s why you should not make another country’s war, your one issue election in your own country. Especially when every candidate is against you. All you did was allow the worse one to win, insuring the destruction of Palestine which is now on your hands. Way to support genocide
Nice circular logic there bud. You late for after school debate class? Is mom checking your homework?
Whatever. I’m done arguing with you Americans. I used to think you guys were stupid, now I know you’re actually fascists. You’ve collectively become the dumbest people on earth
Lol, you’re not even American and you’re arguing about this? Do you even know how the electoral college works? Do you know how any of our government structure works?!
If you took every single third party vote across the country and gave all of them to Harris in just the swing states (some democracy we’ve got…) trump still would have won, in a landslide no less. And still won the senate, and it looks like the house is still projected to go Republican as well.
I’m a Vermonter. Vermont was going in a landslide to Harris (president), sanders (senate), and Scott (governor) no matter who I voted for on any of those lines. I voted third party in all three of those races (I once worked for the sanders campaign in 2015 but I’m so tired of his milquetoast bullshit as of late) and then in other local races it was a split ticket. For example, Vermonts Republican running for state treasurer wants to divest state pensions from blackrock. Meanwhile, the democrat incumbent just gave typical mealymouthed democrat party platitudes that were completely meaningless. The Republican in that race got my vote because they earned it.
The entitlement of libs is unreal.
And the genocide will be worse as a result. Congratulations?
Can’t kill already dead people. They’re both killers, it’s hard to be worse than biden/Harris are currently supporting.
Trump has told Bibi to “Finish the job in Gaza”. Bibi will ethnic cleanse Gaza and the West Bank- there will be no Palestine, just Greater Israel. And that is better than Biden/Harris?
It’s not better, it’s the same fucking thing.
Also the campaign was bad. Not a soul here on lemmy or anywhere else is going to personally out-message a national campaign. People are obviously more enthusiastic to vote for something than to vote against something else, and that’s what it came down to.
Be mad at your party, they threw this election right before your eyes and you plugged your ears and went “lalalala! trump voter says what!” when we tried to tell you that you needed to pressure them to do more or they were going to lose anyways.
Right?
They want progressives to be both a small minority they can ignore, but also 17 million people?!
That would make them 20% of the party…
If 20% of your own party can out message your own campaign, then it’s a shit campaign. Even before factoring in the billion plus dollars you compromised the party platform to raise and the fact that the opponent is trump.
We can’t keep letting the DNC be the only other option. They’re clearly not capable of it.
I remember people here getting crapped on for saying Biden should drop out and let someone else run.
Yet the moment he did, it became some 4D chess move that was going to win the election.
And then the same people were crapped on for “selfishly” asking for a primary to choose a candidate instead of being force fed Harris.
The most delusional person I saw was someone who was convinced the uncommitted movement was backing Harris, after getting banned from the DNC rally for not unconditionally backing Harris…
You aren’t going to like this, but there just isn’t a reason to vote for Democrats if they aren’t going to oppose the Republicans on anything but the personality of Donald Trump.
Sure, they give us lip service, they even throw in goodies once in a while! You get all warm and fuzzy imagining all the things you can “move them” on, but even if they do “listen” to you, (seriously, you guys didn’t even like their platform, and you’re the ones loyal to them. Whose votes are they earning if not yours??) they get challenged and they throw their hands up and say “guess there’s nothing that could be done” and Republicans get whatever they want anyways.
It’s the same outcome, this one just makes you feel bad and dare I say it might actually move you to act.
Again with the “YOU” aren’t gonna like this. No man it’s you voters who fucked yourselves. The Democratic party is gonna survive and it’s politicians aren’t gonna get poorer. It’s you who suffers
I bet your solution is to just vote harder for the same fucking assholes who are fucking us all over! That will show them!
Stupid stupid stupid.
Yeah your solution of not voting at all and allowing Trump to win is a much better option lol
I voted third party thank you very much. Trump voters voted for trump. Harris voters voted for Harris. Third party voters voted for third parties. The democrats ran an awful candidate and then have the audacity to whine bitch moan and scream about how it’s voters fault that they ran a shit ass candidate.
2016 all over again. Trump would of won 2020 too if covid never happened. The democrats are a decaying corpse of a political party and need to be replaced.
Doing the same thing over and over, failing, and expecting it to somehow work if you just do it harder next time is fucking madness.
DECADES OF NEOLIBERALISM CREATED THE MATERIAL CONDITIONS FOR FASCISM TO TAKE ROOT.
You voted the way Trump wanted you to, way to go fascist
Don’t you have homework to do in your parents basement?
That’s not how voting works, but given I’m probably arguing with a child I’m not surprised you don’t understand how voting works.
I agree with your last sentence
We also want to congratulate our friends in the Republican party, they played a great game and we can’t wait to work with them more.
Republican National Committee Chair Michael Whatley is excited to see his colleagues at the DNC make the same mistakes over and over.
This is amazing.
“I saw how the DNC ignored voters, I saw how they talked down to people, and that just made my job easy. I go in and say ‘Democrats think you’re dumb, but Republicans think you’re a genius’ and these dopes eat it up like the slop they feed their pigs.
Holy fuck is this even satire anymore? I can literally see a GOP campaign official say that in private.
In private? I can see them saying it on TV and the rubes still voting for them since all they watch is Fox News and they’d never run it.
Trump won Michigan by doing the absolute bare minimum of pretending to care about the core issues Harris actively ignored (cough genocide).
And also paying probably like 50 bucks to spam send this image for two weeks.
Theyre not the ones that need to learn. Voters need to learn DNC is a bunch of wealthy moderates grifting voters.
What if the DNC privately wins by making sure their candidate loses?
nah pelosi is crying her eyes out as she will have to pay less taxes on all those millions she earns from insider trading & lobbying for big tech.
its a win win for them.
https://media1.tenor.com/m/TY8ysOD2GWwAAAAd/crying-crying-meme.gif
Oh they learned their lessons:
- blame minorities
- shift further right
wouldnt matter if they did learn from it if the crap trump campaigned on goes through and he becomes a “king” in this country
“To all those growing skeptical of this party’s strategies and overall agenda, let me just say we hear you loud and clear. Rest assured we will be doing everything short of interpreting that sound into words and responding to those words in any way shape or form.”
This is an all-timer.
This is unironically true, unfortunately.
What should they really learn? I’m sick of the blame being placed on decent people not doing enough.
How about we blame the pieces of crap that support Trump who has too many disgusting qualities to list.
The reality is even worse. They’re going to “learn” all the wrong lessons. They will shift further to the right, like they always do.
And you’ll be the bad guy for not wanting to vote for a right wing party.
Yep, every time Dems can’t get enough votes from the left to win, because they aren’t “left/pure enough” for them, what they learn is to shift to the right to find votes.
Whereas since voters on the right will always vote for the one with the R by their name even if they don’t think the candidate is “right enough”, their party learns that it doesn’t have to move to the left to find enough votes and stays to the right or moves even further to the right.
…you don’t win over conservatives by offering light-conservatism, but the democratic party have run the same playbook since 1992…
I don’t think you understand their point. Republicans always turn out to vote for their candidate. Then they win (at least a good portion of the time) and they vote in primaries and move the party further right. For any evidence just look at the past 2 decades.
Whereas the left just decides to sit out and therefore Dems lose (or only win at odd times.) They can’t count on leftist/apathetic voters, so they go towards where they think they can get votes (ie. people who always vote and if they do convert enough they are profiting by gaining one vote for them and removing one from Republicans.)
Now everyone here is saying it’s soooo obvious that it’s a poor strategy but is there any introspection on behalf of the left/apathetic? How has withholding your vote or not voting in primaries gone? It’s been done for years and society has moved so, so far away from leftist goals no?
So their point is that it probably is a mix- surely the Dems need to actually run on popular policy and leftists/apathetic need to suck it up, vote in all elections, and vote for the best candidate. Pick your preferred candidate in the primary and then vote for the Democratic candidate in the general, no matter what (well- barring something egregious like…being anything like Trump.) Once Dems actually have power, you can keep pushing left. But if people just sit out, you’re not gonna be counted. Decades of that is proof.
Edit- maybe you mean you can’t win the center over with conservatism-lite. Maybe that’s true, maybe not. But someone mentioned Bernie finished behind Harris in Vermont so I don’t know that it’s a maxim.
The only way to win over conservatives is a full-throated embrace of fascism. Turns them out like crazy.
…the funny counterpart is that when liberals run a full-throated embrace of populism, their greatest threat isn’t the surge of new progressive supporters, but establishment democrats desperately afraid of losing conservatives who’d never support them anyway…
Mindless sheep sycophant party that abuses the system to stay relivent VS super-diverse big tent party than “takes the high road” and it is still almost 50/50…tells you where the people actually stand and how badly the broken system empowers the shitty minority. Oh, before “huurrrrddduuuurrrrr but popular vote dduuurrrrrrr”…that is how many people of each ideology VOTED not how many there are. Glad I could clarify the obvious for you smooth brain twits that think you have a point.
The popular vote that trump won in addition to the electoral college? That popular vote? Democrats (the party apparatus) need to come to term with themselves and look in the mirror for answers as to why there’s a second trump term on the horizon.
Read, comprehend, then speak.
Yep, every time Dems can’t get enough votes from the left to win, because they aren’t “left/pure enough” for them, what they learn is to shift to the right to find votes.
And can you blame them? Who do you think is more efficient catering to, the right-wing idiot who went to vote for a rapist felon or the self-proclaimed leftist that didn’t vote to stop fascism because they didn’t like the alternative enough?
These last elections were already “right vs far right”, following ones are 100% going to be even worse. When the right wins, shifting left makes no logical sense.
No of course I can’t blame them because it’s the only thing that makes sense to do. That’s what I saying. I blame the people who won’t vote for Dems if they don’t perfectly align with everything they want or don’t pass their purity test.
Magats took over the Republican party because they consistently voted for whichever R won the primary, even if it wasn’t the one they wanted to win the primary. R’s have always done this, but Magats especially have been turning out to do this since 2008 when gasp! the Black guy won (they started out as the Tea party). On top of that they did a lot of activism. Parading around with their guns was the part they liked best about that. They took a name for their movement; the TEA (taxed enough already) party was a stupid name and they looked like idiots with their teabags, but it worked for them and they eventually got their demagogue.
The Democratic party can be moved to the left with this same strategy. Vote for the more left-leaning or whoever you like best in the primary, then vote for whoever has the D by their name in the general. When they learn that they can actually count on getting enough votes from their base, they’ll stop futilely chasing votes from the right. At the same time you have to do activism and keep the movement growing, which makes sure they clearly know what you want and creates pressure to influence their policies. You don’t give up after one election cycle because it takes time and work…
Ceding your power by not voting doesn’t make politicians care about you–it’s not like boycotting a business that wants to sell you something. Politicians want to please those who vote for them, not those who don’t. Learn from the magats. First you put the politicians closer to your views into power, then keep pressuring them to enact the policies you want. Not sit around and wait for them to enact the agenda you want first and after that you’ll vote for them. Think about how training a dog works.
h
However, I’ve been doing this forever- and the Dems just keep moving further right.
Not sit around and wait for them to enact the agenda you want first and after that you’ll vote for them. Think about how training a dog works.
You deserve kudos for this. Very well put.
The only ones that need to learn are the vile pieces of shit that chose to throw their vote away or not even vote. A politician doesnt give them all they want so they sacrifice the planet. Lowest of the low. Same kind of trash as maga
Every single third party protest vote could have gone to Harris and she still would have heavily lost. She managed to even lose the damn popular vote by five million votes, despite Trump having a lower turnout than 2020.
This wasn’t because people voted third party, this was because at a time when incumbents have seen massive pushback across the globe from Covid inflation and Biden was unpopular across the board she ran as completely the same as Biden but even more Right on the border.
At a time when the politically disconnected working class families that make up the record trunout in 2020 were struggling with wage stagnation, erosion of Covid gains, and greedflation eroding their savings and pensions, four more years of the same but we’ll adopt even more Republican policies and look how many rich Republicans like us was never going to get the everperson off the damn couch.
More of the same is not a good platform for ‘progressives’ during economic hardship, even if it was out of their control and less hardship than most peer nations.
Even though Trump is a disaster for many of us, most people got though his first four years just fine, and don’t understand just how much damage he did or how much more he could do if the guardrails failed.
Getting the general public out to vote requires giving them something they want to vote for, and when the biggest thing you can point to doing or wanting to do more of is some clean energy related tax breaks that is a major problem.
Had the Dems impeached Clarence Thomas for his and his wife’s role in Jan 6, had Biden improved the immigration system like promised, had he provided free National Guard abortion clinics on federal land, had he made the FDA make puberty blockers and abortion medicine available by teleheath and mail, or indeed had any major victories in the last half of his term to show, we would not be here. Had they run AOC, Bernie, Waltz, or anyone at all who could articulate a platform beyond four more years of the same, we would not be here. Had Harris focused on how she could use left wing policy to fight the effects of late stage capitalism, we would not be here.
This election was an unforced error of the highest consequences, and one brought about by a political party that was so confident that until he dies of old age every politically disinterested Amarican would be so scared by the threat of Trump that they would maintain an unprecedented level of voter turnout without them having to actually do or promise anything.
I blame third party AND non voters. They and MAGA are all the same kind of scum who sacrificed your democracy.
Then, you’ll deal with this over and over until America becomes a completely fascist nation. That’ll teach those third party and non-voters. At least you’ll have your moral high ground, right?
America already will be a completely fascist nation thanks to the fascist enabling non voters
Not yet, it’s not completely fascist yet, but with the way you’re acting, there’s not going to be any significant resistance towards the US becoming a completely fascist country since you’re more interested in blaming each other instead of learning from your mistakes and work together to be better. What a defeatist mindset you have.
It will be completely fascist in January. And its thanks to non voters. They deserve all that is coming.
They don’t care so yes it is on them also. Wasn’t it 10million plus less voters then last time.
20 million. And yes they all deserve it.
…i’m not sure that’s how one builds a coalition…
There wont be a coalition with fascists. You had the vote between fascism and no fascism. If you choose that you dont want to vote for either you support fascism.
Enjoy the unfettered fascism, then, since you refuse to even find allies to fight against it.
Luckily I dont live in the US. But I have family there so I think its terrible people who didnt vote ruin their lifes and future like that. Non voters are no allies. They chose fascism. They are the enemies and there wont be another free election thanks to them and all the Maga garbage who are both on the same level
Well said. As soon as Harris started parading Biden around on campaign events and talking about “we love you Joe” I knew it was over. It doesn’t matter that a lot of the circumstances were out of his control, to many people Biden’s term is associated with hardship. The Dems had a unique opportunity to sidestep the issue by having Harris position herself as a separate candidate, distancing herself from the Biden administration and pushing a narrative of her having different and new ideas for the country. Instead they tried themselves to the status quo in a moment where the everyman is suffering and it pulled them down like a boat anchor.
It’s a damn embarrassment, and the whole world is left weeping. Fucking hell.
Would you prefer they DID vote for Trump? I voted for Harris because she was the only real option but after what the DNC keeps doing (see: fucking Bernie in the primaries and then not even having a primary this year) I really can’t blame anyone for not voting. The Dems need to have their come to Jesus and remember that the people don’t owe them anything.
I dont make a difference whether they voted for Trump or not. They both picked fascism. Primaries dont mean shit especially if they already have a president a power. It was a mistake to have Biden run again but that doesnt excuse not voting for democracy
Which do you think is better? Dems giving people what they want to earn their vote or trump winning?
Dems cant give people what they want because everyone wants different things.
What do you think is better? Preventing fascism or doing nothing and watching a fascist get into power?
Medicare for all or universal healthcare is incredibly popular. Peace is also popular.
Spectacular example of avoiding the question but answering it with it. You want to watch the fascism
We know that Biden’s/Harris’ 2024 Campaign failed to produce enough turnout to win against Fascism. What could they have campaigned on to improve turnout? Universal healthcare is one of the many popular progressive policies, popular for both Democratic and Republican voters, that they could have ran on but decided not to.
How to Win a Swing Voter in Seven Days
“The View” Alternate Universe: Break From Biden in Interviews, Play the Hits in Ads
How Trump and Harris Voters See America’s Role in the World
Majority of Americans support progressive policies such as higher minimum wage, free college
Democrats should run on the popular progressive ideas, but not the unpopular ones
Here Are 7 ‘Left Wing’ Ideas (Almost) All Americans Can Get Behind
Finding common ground: 109 national policy proposals with bipartisan support
Progressive Policies Are Popular Policies
Tim Walz’s Progressive Policies Popular With Republicans in Swing States
What do you think is better? Preventing fascism or doing nothing and watching a fascist get into power?
I think preventing fascism is better which is why I want a popular candidate because that’s the best way to prevent fascism
At this point you might as well start a third party.
This way Gore can lose all over again!
Imagine thinking the DNC will ever push another Gore. If they were willing to do that we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
You missed the point.
Some kind of Democratic Socialist Party of America maybe.
And this is one of the reasons why people shifted Republican in this last election.
If the Democratic party won’t represent Democratic ideals, then out of either anger or apathy, their base will vote for the party that can do it better, Republicans, or not vote at all.
I agree with a lot of people on Lemmy that the average American is an idiot, and our shortening attention spans coupled with our changing media diets isn’t helping with that, but I see these as features not bugs.
Americans in general like their shiny toys, and one of the best ways to capture their attention is by politicians giving concessions and offering things that will benefit their lives. Think carrots on sticks more than sticks themselves.
I will never stop hanging most of the blame on the Democratic party for leading us to today conclusion after Tuesday.
People didn’t shift Republican in this election.l, Trump got about the same number of votes as he did against Biden.
no, but everyone wants to pretend that everyone became ultra-super racist idiot trump voters over the course of 4 years because they listened to a lot of joe rogan, rather than listening to a bunch of CNN like good little vote piggies. see one infographic of a bunch of red arrows everywhere and then everyone loses their fucking minds and decides that the only way to win the next election is to become more racist. if only they tack to the right harder, then they’ll win, they just need to be more racist, see, and then it’ll work!
and the problem is that this is exactly the lesson they want to learn. it’s the lesson they have an interest in learning because they are also a right wing party. maybe it’s because there’s just gonna be more posters running around two days after the election because this is the top drama and it’s eating up time they otherwise would’ve spent talking about celebrity drama or whatever, but we can talk for years about how the democrats, anywhere else, would be a center-right party of neoliberal warmongers that are fundamentally unwilling to give positive material concessions to basically any of their voters. as soon as the election gets called, that all vanishes, suddenly they’ve run the most perfect campaign of all time, and really, it was the voters that were at fault, and if anything, they should be more racist. it’s not that the economy sucked, that they didn’t present an enthusiastic, optimistic, or hell, coherent, vision of the future. no, it’s because they just weren’t racist enough.
it’s 2016 all over again. the punishments will continue until morale improves, time is a flat circle, and I keep falling down the stairs.
do’h
Wait, you think the republicans represent democratic ideals better…?
They pretend better
There is no way to read or infer that from their comment without some serious preconceived notions. That person made a statement of fact. They did not say anything about their opinion on the goodness or badness of that statement of fact.
If the Democratic party won’t represent Democratic ideals, then out of either anger or apathy, their base will vote for the party that can do it better, Republicans
That’s where I’m getting that exact sentiment
